Showing posts with label Gore Vidal. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Gore Vidal. Show all posts

Wednesday, June 25, 2008

New Leadership

THE ABSURD TIMES

The Search For Leadership



































THE ABSURD TIMES
Illustration: Here is a portrait of the sort of leader we need these days, Cesare Borgia. As an example of Papal Infallibility, he was the son of a Pope (Alexander VI) and therefore a Christian (nobody can get elected in this country unless he is a Christian). In fact, he was a Cardinal at the age of 18. It is hard to become a Cardinal, much less at 18. Now his brother was supposed to be favored, so his brother died and Cesare took over (brother Giovanni died, poor fellow, perhaps by stabbing himself in the back several times). Cesare was a Duke, Prince, count, Lord, Captain-General of Holy Church, and all around great guy. Cellini mentions him in his Autobiography, saying that he fought six tigers in the Colleseum. Cellini would exagerate -- probably only 3 tigers were involved. I have no idea how many he ate. You know how leaders today worry about being killed, having the secret service around? Well, when he and his friends walked down the streets, the people hid because if he got ahold of one a felt like it he would stick his arm down the guys throat and pull out his lungs or stick his fingers up his nose and rip it off his face.
He also had great taste. Brown eyes and red hair, one of his portraits became the image used to represent Christ by later artists. If not, he'd stick his arm down THEIR throats and rip out THEIR lungs. He had the brains to hire Leonardo DaVinci as military architect and engineer. Now that's better than Rumsfield or this other guy, the one from Texas A&M, no?
I thought of him because of the one posting I made awhle back and all the responses to it. I'm reprinting them here.
That will be followed by a follow up to the Kucinich Impeachment Articles with a commentary by Gore Vidal.
Finally, I'm starting to get tired of Obama renouncing things. First Farrakhan, then the Pastor, then another Pastor, then sucking up to Israel, what next? Well, his wife and kids seem to be a problem. His greatest advantage, right now, is that he is not McCain, and that applies to everyone except McCain. His second greatest advantage is that he is not a Republican (pardon the expression).
Anyway, Onward Christians!
I answered first by talking about my understanding of why the church wanted to preserve a geocentric version of the solar system and thus screwed Gallelio:
I finally understood "Papal Infalibility." See, back then, if the Pope wanted more of an army, or more power, he had to negotiate with the College of Cardinals. Well, what if a new Pope came along and tried to take away some of the concessions he made to them? Especially if he says it's God's will? Well, he can't because all Popes are infallible and can't be overruled (except when the College thinks it's not an imposition on them.) ?
On your specific incident, this is what I think: the geo-centric solar system was in no way an indication of man's importance or spiritual quality. Just the opposite, in fact. [Two timeless sources come to mind: the Elizabethan World Picture by E.M.W. Tillyard, and most of the non-fiction work by C. S. Lewis - who I had read for over a decade before I even heard of the Screwtape letters and such drivel.] Each planet, the moon was one, was embedded in a sphere. Each sphere represented a level of spirituality, higher as they were distant from the earth. Each was ruled by a different rank of angels, the moon mere angels, Mars, the Arch Angels, and so on. (I cant remember all that about the seraphs, cherubs, etc, but all had specific places in the hierarchy.) The lowest you could get, the most material, the dregs of the universe, was called "SUB-LUNERARY" - see John Donne talking about "dull, sublunerary, lovers..., for example. Galileo's sin, therefore, was making man too big for his britches. John Milton did visit with him during this period and sympathized with him greatly, then had Michael say to Adam "You have enough to worry about, don't even think about the heliocentric v. geocentric universe," although not quite in those words. ?

As far as life on other planets, the problem never crossed my mind, but then I haven't be obligated to a bible-thumper since I was 11. Just of statistical necessity, there is life elsewhere in the universe.
So, one of you took up the case of Gallelio and outer space:
Ahem, well, er, to attempt to answer your queries about Christianity in outer space, which is where
you assumed it came from and perhaps belonged, I will say the following, harumph.
1) I think the Vatican Observatory is a great idea, ok, maybe a stipend should go to Galilei Galileo's descendants
from the Vatican, the least they can do. Better late than never about the extra-t's, good for them for taking a stand I say.
2) Ray Bradbury wrote an interesting short story about 50 years ago called "The Man". It assumed that e.t.'s were humanoid,
some Earthling explorer kept trying to find Jesus as he traveled about the galaxy, dropping in at different planets for a little
redemptive work.
3) I don't think it's RC dogma that ALL animal life is in need of or indeed deserves eternal salvation, so maybe all e.t.'s don't
either, an open question no doubt.
4) 'Sacraments' are symbolic ('thrown-together') events of matter and spirit, much as we are. Since matter is universally distributed
I can see CO2 guzzling spiritualized e.t.'s ( no, not Elizabeth Taylor, that was Richard Burton's joke though, and a pretty good one, you have to admit)
being blessed, theoretically, why not. Water has no dogmatic significance in and of itself, it just happens to be the way WE operate.
So, who knows? It all opens up fascinating speculations, let's hope the RC's follow up with more stuff. Fr.Pierre Teilhard de Chardin would
have loved all this.
Finally, the first responded giving another version of Papal Infallibility:

Hmmm. Papal infallibility. According to Wikipedia, in Catholic theology, papal infallibility is the dogma that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error when he solemnly declares ex cathedra to the Church a dogmatic teaching on faith or morals as being contained in divine revelation, or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation. For all such infallible teachings, the Holy Spirit also works through the body of the Church to ensure that the teaching will be received by all Catholics. The Latin phrase ex cathedra, literally meaning "from the chair", refers to a teaching by the Pope that is considered to be made with the intention of invoking infallibility.
That anyone believes this, to me, seems patently ludicrous, on its face, and then, especially, in that there have been so many "bad" Popes throughout the history of The Church. There have been numerous Popes who had mistresses. One Pope had three illegitimate children who lived in the Vatican with him. Some Popes were murderers. There have been times when there was more than one Pope at the same time. There are numerous examples of Popes with reputations for practically all vices. Following are some other examples of exemplary Popes: Pope Stephen VI, who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber; Pope Sergius III had his predecessors, Pope Benedict IV and Pope Leo V, strangled to death in prison (in Rome, he was supported by 3 major families, one being the Theophylacts. With one of their daughters, Marozia, he had a child, the latter Pope John XI. He is considered to be responsible for starting a period known as The Rule of the Harlots); Pope John XII, who was barely 18 years old, and showed no interest in anything spiritual. He was addicted to rude entertainment and was held back by nothing, doing as he wished regardless of his responsibilities; Pope John XII, who gave land to a mistress and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife; Pope Benedict VIII, who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy; Pope Benedict IX, who was banned from Rome for his unholy behaviour and was replaced by Pope Sylvester III, who he sold the Papacy to. One year later he returned to marry and once more sold the Papacy, now to his godfather, Pope Gregory VI (regretting the sale, he returned to try to depose Gregory VI, while at the same time, Sylvester III also re-emerged to make a claim); Pope Urban VI, who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured; Pope Leo X, a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors reserves on a single ceremony; Pope Clement VII, also a Medici, whose power-politiking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked. Of course, more recently, there is Pope Pius XII's pursuit of the Reichskonkordat with Hitler, and, the current Pope Benedict XVI's Nazi Youth past.
Papal infallibility is but one of the many preposterous beliefs foisted upon its believers by the Catholic church. Organized religion - how silly can it get?
Ah, we may not have the biggest circulation, but we do have the highest average IQ. So there, New York Times.
Taking Back The Republic
June 18, 2008 By *Gore Vidal*
Source: Truthdig
Gore Vidal's ZSpace Page </zspace/gorevidal>
*O*n June 9, 2008, a counterrevolution began on the floor of the House
of Representatives against the gas and oil crooks who had seized control
of the federal government. This counterrevolution began in the exact
place which had slumbered during the all-out assault on our liberties
and the Constitution itself.
I wish to draw the attention of the blog world to Rep. Dennis Kucinich's
articles of impeachment presented to the House in order that two
faithless public servants be removed from office for crimes against the
American people. As I listened to Rep. Kucinich invoke the great engine
of impeachment—he listed some 35 crimes by these two faithless
officials—we heard, like great bells tolling, the voice of the
Constitution itself speak out ringingly against those who had tried to
destroy it.
Although this is the most important motion made in Congress in the 21st
century, it was also the most significant plea for a restoration of the
republic, which had been swept to one side by the mad antics of a
president bent on great crime. And as I listened with awe to Kucinich, I
realized that no newspaper in the U.S., no broadcast or cable network,
would pay much notice to the fact that a highly respected member of
Congress was asking for the president and vice president to be tried for
crimes which were carefully listed by Kucinich in his articles
requesting impeachment.
But then I have known for a long time that the media of the U.S. and too
many of its elected officials give not a flying fuck for the welfare of
this republic, and so I turned, as I often do, to the foreign press for
a clear report of what has been going on in Congress. We all know how
the self-described "war hero," Mr. John McCain, likes to snigger at
France, while the notion that he is a hero of any kind is what we should
be sniggering at. It is Le Monde, a French newspaper, that told a story
the next day hardly touched by The New York Times or The Washington Post
or The Wall Street Journal or, in fact, any other major American media
outlet.
As for TV? Well, there wasn't much—you see, we dare not be divisive
because it upsets our masters who know that this is a perfect country,
and the fact that so many in it don't like it means that they have been
terribly spoiled by the greatest health service on Earth, the greatest
justice system, the greatest number of occupied prisons—two and a half
million Americans are prisoners—what a great tribute to our penal passions!
Naturally, I do not want to sound hard, but let me point out that even a
banana Republican would be distressed to discover how much of our
nation's treasury has been siphoned off by our vice president in the
interest of his Cosa Nostra company, Halliburton, the lawless gang of
mercenaries set loose by this administration in the Middle East.
But there it was on the first page of Le Monde. The House of
Representatives, which was intended to be the democratic chamber, at
last was alert to its function, and the bravest of its members set in
motion the articles of impeachment of the most dangerous president in
our history. Rep Kucinich listed some 30-odd articles describing
impeachable offenses committed by the president and vice president,
neither of whom had ever been the clear choice of our sleeping polity
for any office.
Some months ago, Kucinich had made the case against Dick Cheney. Now he
had the principal malefactor in his view under the title "Articles of
Impeachment for President George W. Bush"! "Resolved, that President
George W. Bush be impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors, and that
the following articles of impeachment be exhibited to the United States
Senate." The purpose of the resolve is that he be duly tried by the
Senate, and if found guilty, be removed from office. At this point, Rep.
Kucinich presented his 35 articles detailing various high crimes and
misdemeanors for which removal from office was demanded by the framers
of the Constitution.
*Update:* On Wednesday, the House voted by 251 to 166 to send Rep.
Kucinich's articles of impeachment to a committee which probably won't
get to the matter before Bush leaves office, a strategy that is "often
used to kill legislation," as the Associated Press noted later that day.
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Comments

**
By Wright, Neil </zspace/neil>
/
Thank you Alla for that note on Kucinich's vote, revealing the absolute
cynicism of the U.S. Congress. It is sick that Vidal shares some of
that cynicism, holding (or at least wanting us to hold) some hope for
the American Republic and the plutocrats that rule it. Power corrupts,
I don't care if you are a charming little vegan.
/
Reply to this Comment <javascript: void(0);>
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*I like Gore Vidal, but the truth I like even better*
By , Alla </zspace/allanikonov>
/
His "hero" Kucinich HIMSELF voted to bury his impeachment. The only
people who voted to open debate about it were Republicans, because they
wanted to call the bluff. Dems (even the best of them, like Kucinich,
and he IS the best) are the same rotten lackeys of USA imperialsm as
Bush and Cheney.
I believe that the USA-"republic" (which was NEVER so great anyway) is
going to the dustbin of history. My only fear is that all the humankind
might be destroyed in the process
*********************

Obama's Blind Spot on Israel
June 20, 2008 By *Nadia Hijab*
Source: The Nation online <http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080630/hijab>
Nadia Hijab's ZSpace Page </zspace/nadiahijab>
/Why is Barack Obama courting right-wing groups like AIPAC and steering
clear of the American Jewish left and center? /
Senator Barack Obama has positioned himself as an independent thinker
unafraid to break the Washington mold. He says that, as President, he
would pursue "direct diplomacy" and talk to Iran and to Cuba. There was
no such challenge to Washington norms in Obama's recent speeches to the
pro-Israel lobby
<http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2BQyyDMXZ2INb%2BdkbDCzRq1WgIqioPoHG>
in Washington and to a synagogue
<http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=He1hBk8x%2FiDM6LWrcO2tiVWgIqioPoHG>
in Boca Raton, Florida. In both, he reduced the status of the
Palestinians from that of a people with rights to servants of Israel's
security.
Obama's campaign is out of step with changing realities in the country.
It is ignoring fast-growing American Jewish communities that are
redefining what it means to support Israel in the United States. The day
before Obama spoke in Florida, I spoke at a well-attended forum
organized by Brooklyn for Peace
<http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=l63jqiYQAMoFvZOnOA7JIFWgIqioPoHG>.
The main organizers and my two co-panelists were American Jews, and it
soon became clear that many in the audience were too.
There were no dissenting voices as our panel spoke of the desperate
conditions of Palestinians living under Israeli occupation, the
Palestinian right of return, and equal rights for all citizens of
Israel. Indeed, many of the questions were from Jews who wanted to know
how to talk about the issues to other Jews--and, especially, to their
mothers.
This may sound like a fringe event, but it was not. One co-panelist was
a New York University department chair, and the other an active member
of Jewish Voice for Peace, a group that has grown from a small
California base to a nationwide organization. It has 20,000 people on
its e-mail list. Its blog, Muzzlewatch
<http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=wbXnI7QVqCFZ2bL2ungHnlWgIqioPoHG>,
tracks those who seek to stifle criticism of Israel's occupation, and is
one of the most-frequented blogs in the country.
If we put the pro-Israel lobby AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs
Committee) at the right of the political spectrum, then these American
Jews are certainly on the left. Interestingly, because it is likely to
be more threatening to AIPAC, there's change in the center, too. Here a
large cluster of American Jewish groups is making the case that peace
with the Palestinians is essential to Israel's very survival. The center
includes Americans for Peace Now, Israel Policy Forum, Brit Tzedek
v'Shalom, and the freshly minted J-Street
<http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=ATjUFR5arhInQnay1k2v9VWgIqioPoHG>,
which is squaring up to be the "other" Israel lobby.
I would not define the contours of a just peace in the same way as the
American Jewish center does. We differ, for example, on the Palestinian
right of return and the notion that Israel can be Jewish and be democratic.
However, what is far more significant in American political terms is
that the American Jewish center defines peace very differently from the
way AIPAC does. AIPAC and its allied American Jewish and Christian
Zionist groups are currently the stronger force, but the center's
numbers are not negligible. J-Street, for example, teamed up with
MoveOn.org to get tens of thousands of signatures on a petition asking
presidential candidate John McCain to renounce pastor John Hagee after
the latter said, "God sent Hitler to cause the Holocaust so that Jews
would move to Israel." J-Street claimed victory when McCain renounced
Hagee.
Yet Obama steers clear of the American Jewish left and center. There are
frequent media reports about his campaign distancing itself from
advisors that might be seen as anything less than 100 percent pro-Israel.
The media also continues to give significant coverage to Obama's abrupt
break with Palestinian Americans that were former friends and fellow
human rights advocates. He has moved from acknowledging Palestinian
"suffering" in times past to a single-minded focus on Israel's security
without even a nod to the besieged Gazans, most of whom now live--as
former President Jimmy Carter recently noted--on one meal a day because
of Israel's siege.
Obama is out of step with his country here, too. This year, as never
before, Palestinian stories of loss and dispossession have been widely
featured alongside coverage of the 60th year of Israel's creation. There
has never been a better time for a politician to buck Washington trends
and listen to the Palestinian voice.
But the Obama campaign, having placed Palestinian Americans beyond the
pale, appears to be too apprehensive even to reach out to American Jews
that challenge AIPAC-style politics. Is the Senator who has brought hope
to so many by preaching "change we can believe in" positioning himself
behind the curve of change?
Nadia Hijab is a senior fellow at the Washington, DC, office of the
Institute for Palestine Studies <http://www.palestine-studies.org/>.
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Wednesday, May 14, 2008

UNITED STATES OF ABSURDITY

THE ABSURD TIMES




THE ABSURD TIMES

www.whatnowtoons.com

Illustration: Again, Kieth has an excellent view of the situation. The U.S. has nothing against socialim -- it is simply focused on who runs the government. The corporate junta that also owns the media, or "We, The People" (remember that phrase?)

Let's start: Over 4,000 U.S. soldiers have been killed by the Junta sending them to Iraq at the cost of Three Billion Dollars. There are also over 20,000 injured, and an innumerable quantity of them with PTSD that will act as a time bomb, or time bombs, for decades to come. We are also broke. Bush has show that he can sacrife too, however: HE WILL GIVE UP GOLF WHILE THE WAR IS STILL ON!!!!!

Since we really have nothing about socialism, let it be known that what is really needed is a more vigorous and progressive version of FDR's NEW DEAL. Government payment of all medical services for every citizen, the people, a social safety net, a minimum guaranteed income. To pay for this, the Corporations and wealthy will pay the same rates on taxes as they did in the 40s and 50s. Regulations will return to the 60s. Every reform from Nixon, through Reagen and the Bushes and even Clinton on welfare will be abolished. Then, the United States may have a chance of surviving as a viable entity.

Hillary won West Virginia which Barak did not even contest. John Denver lied about West Virginia as can be seen in the fact that he chose to LIVE in Colorado himself, not far from Hunter Thompson. The victory reminds me of a line from Gene Wilder in BLAZING SADDLES, where he consoles his African American friend by saying "You have to understand: these people are the salt of the earth, the common clay, you know -- morons!" So, Hillary has the double digit IQ constituency plus dried up old ladies on her side. Will they shift to McCain for a third Bush term or vote aginst it -- it will be an IQ test in November. She lost the nomination in February. She and Bill squandered all the good will he left office with -- and even a budget surplus. What's our deficit now?

Another country that used to be Burma was hit by a cyclone and at least 100,000 will be dead by now. As Bush and Brown started to make points about "democracy," China chimed in with its own disaster, an earthquake. It's size was huge. In area, think from Maine to at least Arizona being affected. Now that's a big earthquake. And, the midwest has been seeing tornadoes of tremendous effect and destruction, the kind that say on the ground. If we are to follow the reasoning of Christian Moron Hagee whose endorsement McCain sought, there must be a lot of gay people and Catholics around. (The Catholic Church, according to him, is no longer a whore.)

We can't forget the Mideast: Isreal is celebrating 60 years of occupation of Palestianian land and the Palestians are in a period of mouning for "The Catastrophe". Bush went there. No truth to the rumor that he intends to wear a beenie while playing golf to disguse himself.

Here is some reading material:

Yahoo! Mail


Re: [The Absurd Times] Wright and Obama -- With friends like this...

"hughman@pasty.com" <hughman@pasty.com>
To:
stanford_charles@yahoo.com
Will it solve the problem? No! but..." I think it would be a nice little
vacation for the American people." Mr Rogers/Clint Eastwood morph.
Solutions: Nationalize the multinational oil companies and behead the
smug SOB CEOs as would be done in China.
Make everyone drive only on battery operated golf carts at 15 MPH. Or
more realistically, make everyone drive only light weight, high milage
cars -so no one need worry about being squashed by an SUV or a semi.
Bumper cars!
Everybody get a horse. And wagon. 40 acres and a mule.

And Gore Vidal (I've done my best with this transcription. If the rest is posted and published, I'll forward it separately. At the end, she asks him how he would like to be remembered: "I don't care one Goddamn." or something like that. The links will take you to audio or video links.

Display full version <#>
Democracy Now!
Democracy Now!


May 14, 2008

Vidal2web


Legendary Author Gore Vidal on the Bush Presidency, History and the
“United States of Amnesia”

With a career spanning more than six decades, Gore Vidal is one of
America’s most respected writers and thinkers. He’s authored more than
twenty novels and five plays. His latest book is /Point to Point
Navigation: A Memoir/. [includes rush transcript–partial]


LISTEN
WATCH <http://www.democracynow.org/2008/5/14/stream>

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Guest:

*Gore Vidal*, One of America’s most respected writers and thinkers. He’s
authored more than twenty novels and five plays. His recent books
include /Dreaming War/, /Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace/ and
/Imperial America: Reflections on the United States of Amnesia/. His
latest is /Point to Point Navigation: A Memoir/.


Rush Transcript

*AMY GOODMAN: *With a career spanning more than six decades, Gore Vidal
is one of America’s most respected writers and thinkers, authored more
than twenty novels, five plays. His recent books include /Dreaming War/,
/Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace/ and /Imperial America: Reflections
on the United States of Amnesia/. His latest is a memoir; it’s called
/Point to Point Navigation/.

Last week at the /Los Angeles Times/ Festival of Books, I heard Gore
Vidal would be there and afterwards went to his home in Hollywood Hills.
We sat down in his living room, and I asked him for his thoughts on this
election year and on the last eight years of George W. Bush in the White
House.

*GORE VIDAL: *Well, it isn’t over yet. You know, he could still
blow up the world. There’s every indication that he’s still
thinking about attacking Iran: ‘And the generals are now reporting
that the Iran are a great danger and their weapons are being used
to kill Americans.’

I mean, you know, I think, quite rightly, the Bushites think that
the American people are idiots. They don’t get the point to
anything. There are two good reasons for this, is the public
educational system for people, kids without money, let’s say, to
put it tactfully, is one of the worst in the first world. It’s
just terrible. And they end by knowing no history, certainly no
American history. I didn’t mean to spend my life writing American
history, which should have been taught in the schools, but I saw
no alternative but to taking it on myself. I could think of a lot
of cheerier things I’d rather be doing than analyzing George
Washington and Aaron Burr. But it came to pass, that was my job,
so I did it.

*AMY GOODMAN: *You wrote /United States of Amnesia/. Why?

*GORE VIDAL: *That’s a good title. You must remember, this is a
people that has no culture, that has never had one. After all, I
was first published when I was nineteen, and the first time I was
a bestseller I was twenty-one, twenty-two. I thought by the time
I’m old, this place is going to be greatly improved, not just
because I was around, but I was going to contribute to it. But
then I saw how the /New York Times/ had blocked in their little
tight world of New York publishing, which they really did to
publish each other’s books. The results have not been very good.

So here we are, cut off from Europe, basically, by the World War
II. Then the post-war period was kind of interesting, because a
lot of us went abroad and stayed there for a time and got to
understand other cultures. And I saw—I saw, with many cases, Jimmy
Baldwin, he became a Frenchman, surprisingly. Surprising accent,
but he was sharp as a tack.

*AMY GOODMAN: *Did you know him?

*GORE VIDAL: *Yes, very well.

*AMY GOODMAN: *What are your memories of him?

*GORE VIDAL: *He had two voices. One, he sounded exactly like
Bette Davis suffering in one of her movies. And the other one was
“Call me Ishmael”—it was the prophet’s voice. So he was a bit of a
contradiction.

*AMY GOODMAN: *What does “amnesia” mean to you? And how can—

*GORE VIDAL: *Well, it means what it literally means: people with
no memory.

*AMY GOODMAN: *How do think that can be defeated, conquered in the
United States?

*GORE VIDAL: *Well, it’s won. I don’t see how you’re going to
defeat it now. People would forget to defeat it.

*AMY GOODMAN: *You write in /Point to Point Navigation/, “I was
born October 3, 1925, on the twenty-fifth birthday of Thomas
Wolfe, the novelist, not the journalist. I’ve lived through
three-quarters of the twentieth century and about one-third of the
history of the United States of America.”

*GORE VIDAL: *Well, I was not counting on them knowing what the
word “amnesia” meant.

*AMY GOODMAN: *You wrote two books during the Bush administration.
Two of the books you’ve written are /Perpetual War for Perpetual
Peace/ and /Dreaming War/. Why these two?

*GORE VIDAL: *Well, /Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace/, that’s my
main book during that period. That was the foreign policy of the
Bush administration: perpetual war. This was also Harry Truman’s
dream. He started the Cold War. If any history had been imparted
to our people, they’d know all this. And if you think I enjoy
having to be the one to tell them about it, I don’t.

*AMY GOODMAN: *And what about /Dreaming War/?

*GORE VIDAL: *Well, same thing. They were dreaming war. You can
see little Bush all along was just dreaming of war, and also
Cheney dreaming about oil wells and how you knock apart a country
like Iraq and of course their oil will pay for the damage you do.
For that alone, he should have been put in front of a firing squad.

*AMY GOODMAN: *Do you believe in the death penalty?

*GORE VIDAL: *No. But in their case, yes.

*AMY GOODMAN: *And so, here we are, moved into the sixth year of
the war with Iraq, longer than the US was involved in World War II.

*GORE VIDAL: *Yes, incredible. That was such a huge operation on
two great continents against two modern enemies. And we’re
fighting little jungle wars for no reason, because we have a
president who knows nothing about anything. He’s just blank. But
he wants to show off: ‘I’m a wartime president! I’m a wartime
president!’ He goes yap, yap, yap. He’s like a crazed terrier. And
look where he got us.

I didn’t realize—I think I’ve always had a good idea about my
native land, but I didn’t think that institutionally we were so
easy to overthrow, because it was a coup d’etat, 9/11. The whole
went crashing. And when we got rid of—when /they/ got rid of Magna
Carta, I thought, well, really, this wasn’t much of a republic to
begin with.

*AMY GOODMAN: *What do you mean, Magna Carta?

*GORE VIDAL: *Well, you know what Magna Carta means?

*AMY GOODMAN: *Explain it.

*GORE VIDAL: *Tell your readers, your viewers. It’s the basis of
our law. Out of it comes the whole theory, practice, on which
our—certainly judicial system is based: due process of law. You
cannot deprive somebody of life, liberty, pursuit of happiness,
because that is a right, constitutional right. And that is—I mean,
every proper American, that’s graved on his psyche, certainly was
on mine. There wasn’t a day passed—I was brought up by my
grandfather in Washington—hardly a day passed that he didn’t want
to talk about due process. And he was blind from the age of ten.

*AMY GOODMAN: *Who was your grandfather?

*GORE VIDAL: *Senator Thomas Pryor Gore. A Mississippi family. His
father had served in the Civil War, even though the Gores—they
came from Mississippi, they were not secessionists. They regarded
themselves as patriots. And the entire family was against going
into the Civil War, but because their friends and neighbors did
and honor required that they do so too, so they got killed off
quite a bit.

*AMY GOODMAN: *Your grandfather was a senator from Oklahoma?

*GORE VIDAL: *He was the first senator from Oklahoma. Last year
was the hundredth year of his election, 1907. That’s when he was
elected.

*AMY GOODMAN: *You’re also cousins with another Gore: Al Gore.

*GORE VIDAL: *True.

*AMY GOODMAN: *What is your assessment of what happened in 2000?

*GORE VIDAL: *He was robbed. I don’t know him. I never see him.
But within the family, I gather it was a great shock to him. He
did everything right in life. He was the good boy and loved the
Supreme Court and went by the rule of law, due process and
everything. And then the Supreme Court bites him in the throat,
because they have a lot of crooks on it. And I watched the Dred
Scalia the other day on television. Did you see him?

*AMY GOODMAN: *No.

*GORE VIDAL: *Oh, he was saying, “Get over it! Just get over it!”
He was talking to the liberals, and you know what awful people
they are—and about 2000, about the interference of the Court in a
national election, which is unheard of. It’s not their job.
They’re not even supposed to be referees. They’re just—they’re
doing something else. And he was a snarling: “Get over it! Get
over it!” I felt, go back to Little Italy, you know? It’s a type I
know very well from Naples.

*AMY GOODMAN: *That’s where you lived for many years.

*GORE VIDAL: *Mm-hmm.

*AMY GOODMAN: *What do you mean, Gore Vidal, when you say you
think what happened after 9/11 was a coup?

*GORE VIDAL: *Well, it was. The first move they made at the time
when Timothy McVeigh decided to blow up the federal building in
Oklahoma City—he started to write me letters, and I wrote him
back, and he’s a brilliant kid, very interested in law, would have
made a good constitutional lawyer, and a patriot. He’s a
professional soldier. But he has to be depicted as a monster,
because who else would blow up little children?

But he didn’t know he was blowing up any little children. He was
acting out of a fit of rage at what had happened at Waco, when
that whole religious community was set fire to by the Army. And as
a soldier, he thought to himself, you see, the one thing that
divides our country from being another military or militarized
republic, it is not only due process of law, but it is also the
Posse Comitatus Act of 1875, which the Army may not be used in any
action against the citizens of the United States. And they just
wandered—bang! bang!—they set fire to the place, burned down more
children and mothers and so on than ever Mr. McVeigh did.

So, at that time, it happened during the—must have been
what’s-her-name, Janet Reno, when she was Attorney General. It was
during Clinton’s watch, which was a sloppy one. And they got some
panicky legislation, because they thought, and with some reason,
that there was a group of people, many of them ex-soldiers, who
were ready to overthrow the government. And they were
anti-Semites, they were—I mean, anything you can think of, they
were that. They were in rebellion against this country.

And I wrote about it in warning terms. I went so far as to write
Mr. Mueller, who was the new director of the FBI. And I saw he was
never going to follow up. They did all these interviews with
various guys living in the woods around Fort Hood. I said,
“They’re going to be trouble one day, and you don’t even follow up
on them? Yet you go on inventing stuff about McVeigh which isn’t
true.” They tried to pretend he was a crazy and this and that.
Well, he got the Silver Star, I think it was.

*AMY GOODMAN: *Persian Gulf War.

*GORE VIDAL: *Yeah. So the coup d’etat comes out of this. They saw
their chance. They—Cheney, Bush—they wanted the war. They’re
oilmen. They want a war to get more oil. They’re also
extraordinarily stupid. These people don’t know anything about
anything. But they have this—there’s a thick piece of—sheet of—a
thick series of actions to be taken, among others—I think one of
them was to lock up every person of color in the United States in
order to protect us from the enemy within. It was evil stuff. So
they latched onto that. I guess Mr. Gonzales was already in place
by then. And that was the coup d’etat. They seized the state. And
from that moment on, they were appointing all the judges, they
were doing this, they were doing that, they got rid of Magna
Carta—I will not explain what that is a second time—and they broke
the republic.

*AMY GOODMAN: *The role of torture?

*GORE VIDAL: *Oh, everything was in there, yes. The USA PATRIOT
Act is just the unnatural child of the Clinton, we've got to
do something about these wild men in Montana