Gaza, Zionsim, Trumpniks

THE ABSURD TIMES

illustration: a trumpnik

Gaza, Zionism, Trump

By

Czar Donic

Frankly, this crap is taking too much out of me.  I'll try again in a few days.

Fortunately, I won't have to write too much this time.  Next time, Chomsky will speak on things in general, and then sometime next week on Israel's finally admitting that it is not a democracy, but a theocracy, much like Iran. In fact, they made it a law! 

A fragile ceasefire remains in effect after four Palestinians and one Israeli soldier were killed during violence Friday along the border with Gaza. During the flare-up, Israel launched dozens of strikes it said were targeted at Hamas rockets and mortars. The death of the Israeli soldier was the first since Palestinians launched weekly nonviolent protests at the border in March. Israeli forces have shot and killed at least 140 Palestinians during those protests, while wounding thousands of others. This comes as Israeli lawmakers drew condemnation Thursday for passing a law that defines Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people and gives them the sole right to self-determination. The law declares Hebrew the country's only official language and encourages the building of Jewish-only settlements on occupied territory as a "national value." We get response from Yousef Munayyer, executive director of US Campaign for Palestinian Rights, and Rebecca Vilkomerson, executive director of Jewish Voice for Peace. She co-authored a new op-ed in The Independent headlined "As Jews, we reject the myth that it's antisemitic to call Israel racist."

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: We end today's show in Israel, where a fragile ceasefire remains in effect after four Palestinians and one Israeli soldier [were] killed during violence Friday along the border with Gaza. During the flare-up, Israel launched dozens of strikes it said were targeted at Hamas rockets and mortars. The death of the Israeli soldier was the first since Palestinians launched weekly nonviolent protests at the border in March. Israeli forces have shot and killed at least 140 Palestinians during those protests, while well over 12,000 have been injured.

This comes as Israeli lawmakers drew condemnation Thursday for passing a law that defines Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people and gives them the sole right to self-determination. The law declares Hebrew the country's only official language and encourages the building of Jewish-only settlements on occupied territory as a "national value." This is Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: [translated] This is a defining moment in the annals of Zionism and the history of the state of Israel.

AMY GOODMAN: The controversial bill passed on a vote of 62 to 55, over the objection of Arab-Israeli lawmakers, who threw papers in the air in protest after its passage.

For more, we're joined by Democracy Now! video stream by Yousef Munayyer, the executive director of the US Campaign for Palestinian Rights. And joining us in studio, Rebecca Vilkomerson, executive director of Jewish Voice for Peace, co-authored a new op-ed in The Independent headlined "As Jews, we reject the myth that it's antisemitic to call Israel racist."

We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Yousef, let's begin with you. If you can talk about what's happened in Gaza right now, the death toll up to 140, and then move on to the law that was just passed on Thursday?

YOUSEF MUNAYYER: Sure. Well, the most recent events that we've seen in the Gaza Strip are sort of a escalation that happens from time to time and forces, you know, many in the media and us here in the United States and the outside world to tune back in to Gaza, based on the fear that it is on the brink of yet another major Israeli bombardment. But the reality is that in those moments when we are not tuned in, the constant and structural violence that Palestinians in Gaza face because of the occupation, because of the policies of Israeli siege and because of the violent methods of enforcement that the Israeli military uses to support those policies, continues all the time.

And this is, altogether, part of a broader agenda by the state of Israel to quell any sort of resistance to what it seeks to do throughout the entirety of the territory, which is to impose its will on the native population of Palestinians, both in the West Bank, in Gaza, in occupied territories, but also on Palestinian citizens of Israel, under the premise that it is the Jewish population that is in control, that deserves to be in control, and that any rights at all that may be afforded to, you know, non-Jews are really done as a favor, and not something that the Jewish state has to do because of principles of equality or tolerance or democracy or anything like that.

And the most recent step that the Israeli Knesset has taken, through the passage of this law, I think, is the best proof of that, showing very clearly that the Israelis no longer care about, you know, even pretending to balance this notion of being a Jewish state and a democracy. You know, I think that was never the case. Now it's clear that they're not even interested in pretending anymore. And, in fact, the initiator and sponsor of this legislation said, after its passage, "We are passing this bill to make sure that no one has any doubt, or even any thoughts, about Israel being a state of all its citizens. So it's very clearly aimed at enshrining inequality, enshrining apartheid, in a constitutional way within Israeli law.

AMY GOODMAN: Rebecca Vilkomerson, if you can respond to this, what's being called the nation-state law that's been passed?

REBECCA VILKOMERSON: Yeah. I mean, I think what Yousef said is exactly right. I think I found it shocking, but not surprising, because I think anytime you have a set of, again, foundational law—this is a basic law, so it's sort of the equivalent of a constitutional bill that will then have an impact on any future laws. And it basically obligates the state to treat its non-Jewish citizens unequally. And that's 20 percent of the overall Israeli population. So, by Israel enshrining racism and discrimination and apartheid into its basic law, that's pretty shocking, at the same time not that surprising because of the ongoing policies that Israel has been pursuing for so many decades.

AMY GOODMAN: And the response of the Jewish community?

REBECCA VILKOMERSON: Well, here in the United States, I think it's been interesting, because there's much more unanimity than there usually is against this bill—you know, everyone, from J Street to the American Jewish Committee to the Reform and Conservative movements, which together represent half of American Jewry. Even some right-wing organizations like the ADL have had some limited concerns about the bill. And I think it's a reflection of—you know, Peter Beinart sort of had this seminal essay that he wrote in 2010, which talked about the ways that the Israeli—the Jewish Israeli population was moving to the right, and the American Jewish population is staying sort of liberal and progressive, and there's a split that's happening. And I think we're seeing the fruition of that, and people are just horrified by the sort of extreme-right-wing agenda that I think the Netanyahu government is feeling empowered by the Trump administration to enact fully.

AMY GOODMAN: You wrote a piece in The Independent, signed by—well, about how 40 Jewish groups from 15 different countries have signed this joint statement—

REBECCA VILKOMERSON: Yeah.

AMY GOODMAN: —condemning attempts to stifle criticism with false—

REBECCA VILKOMERSON: Yeah.

AMY GOODMAN: —accusations, you say, of anti-Semitism.

REBECCA VILKOMERSON: Right. This is a pretty historic moment. Again, we had 40 organizations from around the world, Jewish and Israeli organizations. And we felt like it was very important, because there are so many efforts right now, worldwide, lots of different specific strategies and tactics, but worldwide, trying to legislate definitions of anti-Semitism, that sometimes include chilling language, at the very minimum, and sometimes actually legislate that forms of anti-Zionism or certain critiques of Israel would be defined as anti-Semitic. And this has resulted in bank accounts being shut down in Germany and in the U.K., people being prosecuted in France. Here in the United States, there's something called the Anti-Semitism Awareness Act, which would make it potentially, you know, extremely difficult for people to speak out politically against Israeli human rights violations. So we felt it was very important to lend a Jewish voice against that and to say that BDS is a legitimate tactic to be using in this particular moment. That's Boycott—

AMY GOODMAN: And you're talking about the Boycott, Divestment—

REBECCA VILKOMERSON: Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, yes.

AMY GOODMAN: —and Sanctions movement. Yousef Munayyer, what happens from here, after this law is passed, and also in Gaza?

YOUSEF MUNAYYER: Well, I think there's great concern for what may happen in Gaza in the coming months. Of course, as we know, in the major Israeli bombardments of Gaza in 2008, 2009, and in the fall of 2012, in the summer of 2014, all of them preceded Israeli elections by a matter of months. And we are, you know, expecting Israeli elections in 2019. And given the recent behavior of the ruling coalition, with the passage of all kinds of right-wing legislation aimed at rallying the support of its base, I would not be surprised if they were to attempt another sort of massive operation against the Palestinian population in Gaza ahead of elections once again. So that's something that I would definitely keep my eye on. But I—

AMY GOODMAN: Yousef Munayyer—we have to leave it there for now—US Campaign for Palestinian Rights, and Rebecca Vilkomerson, Jewish Voice for Peace.

The original content of this program is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License. Please attribute legal copies of this work to democracynow.org. Some of the work(s) that this program incorporates, however, may be separately licensed. For further information or additional permissions, contact us.

UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES???

THE ABSURD TIMES

Thank you, Carlos Latuff.  We can see that the BDS movement (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions) is having an effect by the way Israel in now treating its own as even some of them are under, er, "Scrutiny".  It was amusing to see Jill Stein of the Green Party support the movement with Joe Cuomo, CNN moderator and brother of the Governor of New York who is carrying out his own campaign against the movement – albeit with great "encouragement" from Zionist pressure.

            Is it not becoming tiresome to hear the term "Unintended consequences" used when describing to invasion of Libya (pushed by Clinton and idiots in France) and the destruction of Iraq (started by the Bushes), resulting to the presence of ISIS in both countries?  They had to know that this systematic attempt to dismantle Arab Nationalist governments in favor of theocratic one would result in such disaster.  If they did not, they could have read, right here, that very warning and prediction.

Any one with cognitive functioning of a borderline idiot or above with any information on the subject could have seen this coming.  Therefore, there was nothing "unintended" about it.  In fact, the strategy goes as far back as Kissinger who pointed out that we could say the Soviet Union was officially atheist and that we are not would be an incentive to move these countries away from Russian influence.

Still, there is not much point in saying any more on the subject now.  Whoever is elected will only be worse than what we have now.  Below is an interview that first will talk briefly about the candidates and then use the actions of Turkey to provide a summary of what has happened in the Mideast.

TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: And what do the U.S. elections mean for what's taking place now?

VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, look, I mean, it's—you can see from your news report at the beginning that, in domestic terms, there is a great difference between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump has not only been absorbed by the white nationalists, but he himself appears to be a white nationalist. But seen from the rest of the world, the difference between the two is minimal. You know, here you have Donald Trump, who is, in many ways, erratic. God knows what he'll do once he becomes president. He will lead a party—

AMY GOODMAN: Do you think God knows what he'll do, once he—

VIJAY PRASHAD: Yeah, I think God knows what he'll do. You know, I mean, I think that if the Republican Party was at such a place where Ted Cruz, who said that he would like to bomb Syria, to see the desert essentially be irradiated—if the Republican Party can see somebody like that as normal, as rational, then, you know, God help us if the Republicans are in charge of things.

But let's take the case of Hillary Clinton. You know, here's somebody who actually pushed Obama to go into the Libyan operation. You know, Obama was reticent to enter the operation in Libya. The French were very eager. And Hillary Clinton led the charge against Libya. This shows, to my mind, a profound dangerous tendency to go into wars overseas, you know, damn the consequences. And I think, therefore, if you're looking at this from outside the United States, there's a real reason to be terrified that whoever becomes president—as Medea Benjamin put it to me in an interview, whoever wins the president, there will be a hawk in the White House.

TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: An explosion at a police station in Turkey near the border with Syria has reportedly killed at least 11 people and wounded 70. State-run media is reporting that Kurdish militants were responsible for the attack, but there's been no claim of responsibility. This comes as the Turkish military has sent additional tanks into northern Syria, intensifying its ground offensive in the ongoing conflict.

The U.S. military is backing Turkey's incursion, which began earlier this week with an aerial bombing campaign. Turkey says the offensive is against ISIS-held areas along the border. But Turkey says it's also concerned about Syrian Kurdish militias at the border. Those militias are backed by the United States. On Wednesday, Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan announced Turkish-backed Syrian rebels claimed—reclaimed the Syrian town of Jarabulus from the Islamic State.

PRESIDENT RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN: [translated] As of this moment, Free Syrian Army and residents of Jarabulus have taken back Jarabulus. They have seized the state buildings and official institution buildings in the town. According to the information we have received, Daesh had to leave Jarabulus.

AMY GOODMAN: Turkey's offensive is dubbed "Euphrates Shield," and it's the country's first major military operation since a failed coup shook Turkey in July. On Wednesday, the Turkish president, Erdogan, met with U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, who said the United States supports Turkey's efforts to control its borders.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: We believe very strongly that the Turkish border must be controlled by Turkey, that there should be no occupation of that border by any group whatsoever, other than a Syria that must be whole and united, but not carved in little pieces.

AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile, the British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says videos posted to a social media website Thursday depict carnage in the Bab al-Nairab neighborhood of Aleppo, where two barrel bombs were reportedly dropped, killing at least five people. The group also reported additional strikes across Aleppo and its suburbs, saying the dead were mostly women and children.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: The strikes came as the United Nations announced Russia has agreed to a 48-hour humanitarian truce in Aleppo to permit aid deliveries, pending security guarantees are met by parties on the ground. The United Nations has been pushing for a weekly 48-hour hiatus in fighting in Aleppo to assist the city's approximately 2 million people who have been suffering as Syria's five-year-old conflict continues to take a massive humanitarian toll.

A separate United Nations team has concluded the Assad government and ISISmilitants carried out repeated chemical weapons attacks in Syria in 2014 and 2015. The report accuses Assad of twice using chlorine gas. It also accuses ISIS of using mustard gas.

AMY GOODMAN: All of this comes as U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov, are meeting today in Geneva to discuss details of a cooperation agreement on fighting Islamic State in Syria.

For more, we're joined by the acclaimed scholar who has followed the region closely for years, Vijay Prashad. He is a professor of international studies at Trinity College, columnist for the Indian magazine Frontline. His new book is called The Death of the Nation and the Future of the Arab Revolution. Professor Prashad's previous books include Arab Spring, Libyan Winter and The Poorer Nations: A Possible History of the Global South.

Vijay Prashad, welcome back to Democracy Now! It's great to have you in studio.

VIJAY PRASHAD: Thanks a lot. Great to be here.

AMY GOODMAN: So, let's start with what's happening right now in Turkey, where Vice President Joe Biden just was.

VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, the situation in Turkey is very dire. As you know, on July 15, there was the failed coup. But the matters in Turkey have unraveled long before this failed coup. You know, the crackdown on reporters has been going on for at least a year and a half, if not longer. The internal politics of Turkey has been in disarray.

One of the interesting things about the government of Mr. Erdogan is that, previously, he had started a peace process with the Kurdish Workers' Party, the PKK, which the United States and Turkey sees as a terrorist outfit. They had started a protracted peace process called the Imrali process. But this war in Syria has essentially unraveled that peace process, and the Turkish military has gone back on the full offensive against the Kurds in southeastern Turkey, and, as well, as you saw this week, the Turkish army has crossed the border into Syria to stop the advance of Syrian Kurds from creating what the Syrian Kurds call Rojava, which would be a statelet of Syrian Kurds which is right on the Turkish border.

You know, the reason that operation is called Euphrates Shield is that the Euphrates runs in that region from north to south. And what the Turkish government would like to see is for the Syrian Democratic Forces, which has a large Kurdish component, to move back east of the Euphrates—in other words, withdraw from Jarabulus, withdraw from Manbij, which they had taken quite—in a celebrated victory, and therefore prevent the creation of this Kurdish statelet called Rojava. On the surface, they say it's about ISIS, but really this is about the protracted war that the Turkish government has begun again against the Kurds.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: But interestingly, you mentioned the failed coup. The New York Times, for instance, is reporting today that Erdogan wanted to go into Syria earlier, but the military was resisting, and it was only as a result of his being able to purge and remove so many top military officers that now he's been able to do—to effect this incursion.

VIJAY PRASHAD: This is likely the case, you know, but it's also been the situation that this is not the first Turkish entry into Syria. The Turks had entered previously; the Turkish military had. You know, there's a celebrated shrine, a memorial to one of the founders of the Ottoman Empire, and the Turkish military had entered to secure that monument earlier. Turks had also, of course, kept their border open and had allowed supplies and people to cross the border into various proxy groups, whether it's Turkish-backed proxy groups, Saudi groups, Qatari groups—and, in fact, the Islamic State. You know, they have used for years the Turkish border. And I think that the sheer instability of the war in Syria has returned, you know, the conflict into Turkey—what the CIA, after the successful coup in Iran in 1953, called blowback. You know, this is, in a sense, blowback against Turkey. So, they have previously entered Syria with the military. They have, of course, supported their proxies. But now, I think, with the gains made by the Kurds, this is as much a political entry as anything. You know, the principal reason, I would argue, that they've entered Jarabulus is to stop the creation of Rojava.

AMY GOODMAN: We're talking to Vijay Prashad, and we're going to continue this conversation after break. Vijay Prashad is professor of international studies at Trinity College, columnist for the Indian magazine Frontline. His new book is calledThe Death of the Nation and the Future of the Arab Revolution. We'll talk about, well, Turkey, Syria, Libya, and also the U.S. elections, before we speak with Emma Thompson. The famed actress is now back in Canada after going to the Arctic. Stay with us.

[break]

AMY GOODMAN: "Denizlerin Dalgasiyim," "I am the Waves of the Sea," by Selda Bagcan. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman, with Juan González. We're speaking with Vijay Prashad, professor of international studies at Trinity College and author of a new book. It's called The Death of the Nation and the Future of the Arab Revolution.

I want to turn to a novelist who was just arrested. I want to talk about press freedom in Turkey. The Committee to Protect Journalists reports that Turkish author and columnist Asli Erdogan—no relation to the president—has written about her treatment in prison since her arrest earlier this month, after the government closed down the newspaper where she worked. She now faces a pending trial on terrorism charges and says she's been denied medication or sufficient water for five days and is diabetic. She's one of many journalists and writers who have been arrested on charges of terrorism in Turkey. About 10,000 people have been arrested since the coup, at least that we know, or the attempted coup, though Erdogan, of course, wrested power back. Professor Vijay Prashad, what about Asli?

VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, look, you know, she is one of the tens of thousands of people who have been arrested under so-called suspicion that she was doing propaganda for the Kurdish Workers' Party, the PKK. You know, here's a celebrated novelist, a journalist for a newspaper whose entire staff pretty much, the editorial staff, has been arrested. Newspapers have been facing a great challenge inside Turkey, and broadcasters. If anybody has questioned the fact that the Turkish government, you know, has been allowing fighters to cross the border, they have been arrested. And this has been happening for the last several years. You know, that's why I say the failed coup of July 15th has just provided the government with the opportunity to go very deep into its list of those whom it sees as dissenters, and pick them up.

But they've been going after reporters for years now. Anybody who challenges their narrative of the war in Syria, they consider a threat, and they accuse them of being linked to the PKK. You know, this is one of the simplest ways of delegitimizing somebody, is to say that they are a propagandist for the PKK. And that's precisely what they've said to her. They've also held her in solitary confinement. And she has asked to go back into the general population. You know, that's a—it's a humanitarian thing, on the surface of it. And also, you know, this is somebody with medical problems, and they've denied use of medication and a proper diet. But she's only one. You know, as you noted, there are thousands of journalists who have been picked up. And sadly, a number of them are Kurdish journalists, independent journalists from the southwestern region of Turkey, who have been picked up.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And you mention the Kurdish Workers' Party. Clearly, Turkey is a far more developed country than most of the other Middle East countries and, along with Egypt, probably has the largest working class, per se. Has there been any ties between the Kurdish Workers' Party and ongoing workers' movements in Turkey among the rest of the population?

VIJAY PRASHAD: So, the Kurdish Workers' Party starts, you know, as a principally Kurdish nationalist force, separatist force. But Turkey is an interesting country, because, you know, the largest Kurdish population in a city is not in the southeast, but is in Istanbul. So, you know, about 10 years ago or so, the Kurdish Workers' Party began to move from the position of secessionism to the position of more rights inside Turkey. And there have been a series of attempts to unite with the Turkish left, various small leftist parties, to create an umbrella party that would both fight for rights of all kinds of people—gays and lesbians, women, workers and Kurds—inside Turkey. And the most recent, you know, party of this kind was the HDP, which had in both elections in 2015—there were two parliamentary elections—did enough—you know, did well enough to block Mr. Erdogan's attempt to create a presidential form of government. And in a sense, this domestic pressure from the HDP has also upturned the applecart, as far as Mr. Erdogan's domestic agenda is concerned.

AMY GOODMAN: You know, Joe Biden was just there, the vice president. Turkey, Erdogan has been demanding the extradition of Fethullah Gülen, who is in the Poconos in Pennsylvania. Biden wrote a piece in a Turkish paper, and Foreign Policyhas said that Turkey has admitted that they have not given evidence that this man was behind the attempted coup. Explain, overall, the significance, for people who have never heard of him. It's not just about the PKK in Turkey.

VIJAY PRASHAD: No, it's not. The PKK provides, I think, the opportunity for the Turkish government to go after a large number of journalists, because many of these journalists that they've picked up are people of the left. The purges in the military, in the judiciary, in those sectors, they've blamed on people with sympathies to the Gülen movement or been members of the Gülen movement.

Now, when Mr. Erdogan came to power in the early 2000s, one of the great fears of this kind of Islamist movement was that they would suffer a coup by the military, that the military, which was largely republican, would go and overthrow them. So, from the very beginning, the AKP party, the party of Mr. Erdogan, has been very careful not to antagonize the military. And through the early years, Mr. Gülen's movement and Erdogan both collaborated in stuffing their people into the military and into the judiciary. In a sense, this is now a family fight, that the very people that they stuffed into the military and into the judiciary have, of course, now turned on Mr. Erdogan. So he is now purging these people from positions of some authority. So it's not untrue that the Gülenists are inside the military and inside the judiciary, but they were put there essentially to facilitate the Islamization of these institutions.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And the Gülen movement, in one of the bizarre examples of what's happening in education in the United States, runs the largest charter school network in the United States. They have charter schools across the country, especially in Texas. Is there any indication—and they're bringing in Turkish educators to come into the United States to work in these schools. Do you have a—have you studied that at all?

VIJAY PRASHAD: No, I haven't looked at that, but I've read about it. And the interesting feature, of course, is that this charter school movement or this push towards having faith-based schools in the United States is so closely linked to the agenda not only in Turkey, but in Pakistan, in various other places. And, you know, you see the downside of this: the promotion of a kind of theocratic mindset, the promotion of, you know, a lack of appreciation of the diversity of populations, of minorities, of science, you know, things like that. So, of course, the United States—I'm glad you raised this, because the United States is not somehow outside this process. You know, the United States is very much in this process, not only by promoting this overseas, but, of course, by promoting it from Texas to New York. It's not only Texas, Juan. We like to think of Texas as a sort of, you know, bastion of the American Taliban, but this American Talibanization has been happening everywhere.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to move from Turkey to Saudi Arabia. While Joe Biden went to Turkey, Secretary of State John Kerry went to Saudi Arabia. Talk about Saudi Arabia and what's happening today and the U.S. role in Saudi Arabia.

VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, this is actually, I think, the most important meeting. And it's important that Mr. Kerry went to Saudi Arabia before meeting Lavrov in Geneva. And the reason I say this is that, you know, the Russians, the Iranians and the Americans have now come to the understanding that the process in Syria cannot start with the demand that Mr. Assad has to go. And why I say this is that Turkey has in the last couple of weeks come to the same position. So, the current prime minister of Turkey has quite clearly said that they no longer require Mr. Assad to leave as a precondition for the peace process, but he can stay, as the prime minister said, for a transitional period.

The only power in the region, the so-called subjugating powers of the region, that has not accepted this view is Saudi Arabia, and, to some extent, its Gulf Arab allies. You know, Saudi Arabia is fighting an extraordinarily brutal war in Yemen. It is obstinate in that war. It's made no gains, despite the fact it's been bombing Yemen for over a year. And, of course, the United States government has continued to resupply Saudi Arabia through this period. So, Mr. Kerry's—

AMY GOODMAN: Engaged in the largest weapons sale in U.S. history with Saudi Arabia.

VIJAY PRASHAD: Precisely, the largest weapons sale, which Mr. Obama justified on economic grounds, which I thought was the most vulgar thing. In his statement, he said—or his proxy said, his spokesperson said, that this is the largest weapons sale, which benefits most of the states in the United States, because they will have bits and pieces of manufacturing.

But the point I just want to make is that for Mr. Kerry to be in Saudi Arabia is important because one of the features that they need to be pushing is that Saudi Arabia needs to now adopt the view that there needs to be a long transitional process in Syria. They cannot demand the Assad—Mr. Assad leave as a precondition. Everybody else has accepted this except Saudi Arabia.

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The original content of this program is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License. Please attribute legal copies of this work to democracynow.org. Some of the work(s) that this program incorporates, however, may be separately licensed. For further information or additional permissions, contact us.