Showing posts with label #Libya. Show all posts
Showing posts with label #Libya. Show all posts

Friday, August 26, 2011

Fake Reports from Lybia

This comes from Press TV (seems I already pointed some of this out):


Press TV talks with Stephen Lendman, writer and radio host in Chicago for his assessment of the situation in Tripoli and shares an email from independent journalists being targeted for execution. Below is an approximate transcript of his interview. Lizzie Phelan, our correspondent, then responds to Mr. Lendman's comments and contributes important information about the so-called revolutionary fighters.

Press TV: How are you assessing the situation right now in Tripoli?

Stephen Lendman: I know your reporter on the ground Lizzie Phelan and she is exceptional; she is right there putting herself in harm's way sending back, as able, heroic reports.

I know conditions on the streets are very fast moving, very fluid, very chaotic, and very violent; I also know that anything reported by the major media, especially America's major media - some of it is so shocking it's shameless and it's deliberately falsified. It even gives propaganda a bad name.

When they talk about a conflict like this Libya one that is just an outrageous American-led imperial war for conquest; absolutely illegal and with no humanitarian concern for the Libyan people, even the so-called rebels are not rebels they're mercenaries; they have been hired.

Most of them may not even know what they are doing. They were paid; they were brought in mostly from outside the country; they're probably being paid more than they ever go before so, you know, you need a job and you get a paycheck and you were told “We want to liberate this country from bad people”. And they go in and do what they're told to do because they want to keep getting their paycheck.

About the so-called celebrations in the streets of Tripoli - I absolutely discount them. There were polls taken a week or two ago that showed across the country including in the eastern part of the country in the Benghazi area - wherever they conducted these polls, which is not an easy thing to do in any country at war so you can't vouch for the absolute accuracy of this - but polls showed the longer the NATO bombing went on the higher approval rating Gaddafi got; and the last numbers I saw - 85 percent of the Libyan people approve of Gaddafi.

Earlier when Western media reported a rebel mass celebration in the streets of cities like Zawiyah, Misrata and others that were supposedly liberated by rebels - they never were liberated by rebels; these were lies.

Gaddafi forces took cover while NATO was bombing; rebel elements moved in; fake footage was shown on Western TV of large celebratory crowds with fireworks going off - these were lies.

As soon as the bombing curtailed, Gaddafi forces moved back in and the rebels scattered, afraid. Misrata, Brega and Zawiyah are each still in government hands and who knows what's going on in Tripoli.

Just days ago there were supposed rebel's mass celebrations of victories in Misrata while there were massive crowds in Tripoli 2 days ago celebrating government victories over the rebels. The vast majority of people in Tripoli especially detest the rebels. All the major tribes in Libya detest the rebels and detest NATO.

The idea that there would be a mass celebratory crowd in Tripoli now celebrating whatever is put across as a rebel victory - who knows what is really going on - I don't think there has been any rebel victory I think it is very chaotic and violent, so we have to wait and see how this plays out. There may be lots of people in the street, but they're certainly not supporting the rebels...

Can I read you something from an email from Mahdi Nazemroaya who is there in Tripoli with Lizzie Phelan, Franklin Lamb is also there... Mahdi's overnight email said, “NATO landed insurgents in Tripoli harbor. They are attacking my hotel. I almost got shot. They are still lying a lot about claims of controlling the capital, but we are in danger”. Mahdi also asked about any help Press TV can supply to get him, Franklin and Lizzie out of the city; they need whatever help they can get and as Lizzie said on air just moments ago she is afraid to leave the hotel because she is a marked woman and Mahdi and Franklin are marked men.

NATO knows who they are and they are targeted. There is sniper's on roof tops - who knows who is friend or foe. Franklin was shot in the leg - I think he's OK. He was shot in the leg on Sunday and Marty said he was shot at and came very close to being hit. But he also said the rebels are armed guerilla gangs and mercenaries who are indistinguishable from Tripoli residents - they're waging street warfare.

Press TV: So what you're saying is that we cannot say what is really happening in Libya or what the situation is looking like; there is a bigger picture we must see on what the people are really thinking is happening to their country.

Tell us about the NATO role in all this, when you are saying this is something that the Western governments have been trying to achieve. What has been NATO's role since those airstrikes started and now it appears they are going to continue those strikes?

Stephen Lendman: This is a Washington-led effort; this is Obama's war. This is NATO's war of which the main NATO partners are Cameron in the UK, Sarkozy in France and of course Obama - they're the three main co-conspirators in this war.

If the bombing stopped the rebels would disintegrate and disappear - they wouldn't last even 24 hours if the bombing stopped. It's the bombing that is really doing everything and the bombing is killing an awful lot of civilians. I absolutely believe that NATO wants a blood bath in Tripoli.

Let's say that hundreds of mercenaries came in; they landed on the shores of Tripoli and they look like any other Libyan - nobody else knows who the person next to them is.

All Libyans are armed; it's not unusual to see a Libyan on the street with a weapon. So these people came in with weapons looking like other pro-Gaddafi Libyans and they intermingle.

I also believe that there were sleeper cells in Tripoli awaiting orders and who knows how many people might have been in them - there could have been dozens or even hundreds and they are scattered at points that NATO wants them positioned at including on roof tops shooting at people.

Just imagine going out on the streets anywhere and you hear gun fire and you sense that it's coming very close to you - you would be very terrified. The residents of Tripoli don't know what's going on so they're scared; they're also mostly armed. Gaddafi handed out something in the order of two million weapons to Tripoli residents and others.

My understanding is they're committed to defending their country against NATO against the rebels. So again, I discount everything coming through the major media. They even show stock fake footage - they make this stuff up.

Now, there is a big difference between Iraq 2003 - the Gulf War also - to what's going on in Libya. You had the US military invade both times. The US military is far different to ragtag rebels - you can't even begin to compare the two. So the situation is entirely different. Of course the US military had great air cover as well so Saddam didn't stand a chance.

The Libyans are civilians and you've got Gaddafi's military force, but if they come out visibly in the open NATO bombs them. So they have to be very careful and clever and disguise themselves. They have to disperse and use non-military vehicles and such so as not to look like a military target because they will be bombed immediately.

By the way, in Mahdi's email he said to me that CNN - not directly to him, but through another person - threatened him and said that he personally would pay for opposing the war. Now if you can imagine that, a broadcaster threatening an independent journalist for reporting the truth about events on the ground... not the propaganda CNN, the New York times and the other major media report daily.

Lizzie, Mahdi and Franklin and there are reporters from various countries from South America and they are all being targeted. They could be targeted by the rebels and assassinated; they are very fearful and that's why these people need help to get out...

I don't for a minute believe that the Libyan people support what's going on. Sure, there are elements of Libyans that may support this, but the vast majority, I am sure, are against this. They know what happened to the Iraqis and the Afghanis - they know what's awaiting them if NATO wins this battle.

If they don't want to be colonized and occupied and plundered and their lives made miserable because NATO has won this conflict, I think in the end they will put up a fight to defend their country - I'm hopeful...

SC/MYA 

Wednesday, August 24, 2011

Don't Predict Gaddafi


IT AIN’T OVER TILL IT’S OVER






          The title is a famous quote from Yogi Berra.  It has two sources.  One is the fact that many operas end with an aria by the main soprano who then dies.  Operatic sopranos are stereotyped as being fat as a result of the eating they do to maintain the energy needed for opera, especially a Wagnerian one.  The other is the fact that there is no time clock in baseball.  Each team gets 27 outs or nine innings or as many a needed until a winner is decided.

          Well, this applies to Gaddafi and Libya as well.  Last night, all the news outlets, including Al-Jazeera, considered him finished.  He then blew up a bunch of people and made a few audio appearances on a Libyan and a Syrian station. 

          I have heard arguments that “it is difficult to argue that he should remain in power, despite how well he administered the country.”  Actually, it is quite easy to argue either side of that issue as any attorney or rhetorician will tell you, but that it besides the point.  What happened is that NATO attacked the country and led to the chaos you see because NATO serves capitalist interests and Libya was essentially Socialist.  As a capitalist force, there is no point in making any sort of moral (“should”) judgments as Capitalism is at best an amoral system.

          I have also had to point out to people that it is foolish to attempt to predict what Gaddafi will do next.  There is no way of telling or predicting.  The only thing that is clear is that he has said that the “rebels” are “traitors and rats.” 

          A final point on Al Jazeera:  it is owned by Qatar, a country that joined NATO in the attack.  Most decisions in Qater, I understand, are made by the wife of the leader and her name is Moza or, in English translation, Banana.  Banana has mad policy changes that have led to the resignation to many fine journalists from the station.   Even so, it is still more reliable than most western news outlets.


 

Tuesday, August 23, 2011

The best discussion I've heard on #Libya

Edited version:

This is from Democracy now:
(Again, Saif did not say "Screw" he said "Fart on")

Phyllis_libya_button
Fighting continues in parts of Tripoli, the capital of Libya, where rebels are reportedly battling with Muammar Gaddafi’s forces outside his heavily fortified compound. Reports by the Libyan Rebel Council that Gaddafi’s son, Saif al-Islam, had been captured were contradicted late Monday when he emerged amongst supporters in front of foreign journalists in Tripoli. The International Criminal Court had claimed he had been in the custody of anti-Gaddafi fighters for the past 24 hours. The rebels have also claimed that two of Gaddafi’s other sons were detained but have provided no evidence. Meanwhile, details have emerged that U.S. and NATO forces played a key role in the Libyan rebel push into Tripoli, carrying out 17 Predator drone strikes and 38 air strikes since August 10. Overall, the U.S. has carried out 1,210 air strikes and 101 Predator drone strikes in Libya since April 1. NATO says it will keep up pressure on Gaddafi and that its "mission is not over yet." We are joined by Phyllis Bennis, who is a fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies. [includes rush transcript]
Guest:
Phyllis Bennis, a fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies. She’s written several books, including Challenging Empire: How People, Governments, and the U.N. Defy U.S. Power and Understanding the Palestinian-Israeli Conflict: A Primer.

Rush Transcript

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AMY GOODMAN: As we go to broadcast, heavy fighting continues in parts of Tripoli, the capital of Libya, where rebels are reportedly battling with Muammar Gaddafi’s forces outside his heavily fortified compound. Rebel leaders say they do not expect the huge complex to fall easily. Sky News reports many casualties are arriving at a hospital in central Tripoli following the intense fighting. It also says, "In parts of Tripoli, there is reportedly no power, water supplies have been cut and phone lines [are] down."
Reports by the Libyan Rebel Council that Gaddafi’s son, Saif al-Islam, had been captured yesterday were contradicted when he emerged amongst supporters in front of the foreign journalists’ hotel in Tripoli late on Monday. The International Criminal Court had claimed he had been in the custody of anti-Gaddafi fighters for the past 24 hours. This is Saif al-Islam speaking to reporters.
SAIF AL-ISLAM: [translated] Firstly, I want to deny all the rumors. NATO and the West have modern technology, and they have blocked and jammed communications. They sent messages to the Libyan people through the Libyan network, I think. They have stopped the state TV broadcast. They created a media and electronic war to spread chaos and fear in Libya. They have also smuggled saboteur gangs through the sea and civilian cars into the city to create a mess.
You have seen how the Libyan people rose up together, men and women, to break the spine of the rebels, rats and gangs yesterday and today. Now we will have a tour of the hot spots of the city of Tripoli, so you can see that the situation is good and everything is well. We want to reassure the world that the situation in Libya is excellent, thank God. We will go now for a tour in Tripoli in the areas where they claim there is fighting and battles.
REPORTER: [translated] Are you afraid that you’ll be handed over to the criminal court?
SAIF AL-ISLAM: [translated] Screw the criminal court.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Gaddafi’s son, Saif al-Islam, speaking to reporters, disproving reports he had been captured by rebel forces. The rebels have also claimed two of Gaddafi’s other sons were detained but have provided no evidence.
Meanwhile, more details are emerging on how the U.S. and NATO forces played a key role in the Libyan rebel push into Tripoli. Between August 10th and 22nd, the U.S. carried out 17 Predator drone strikes since August 10th, and 38 air strikes. Overall, the U.S. have carried out more than 1,200 air strikes and 101 Predator drone strikes in Libya since April 1st.
Some prominent U.S. analysts are now calling for U.S. ground troops to be sent into Libya to help stabilize the country. As we go to air, a NATO press conference is underway. A spokesperson at NATO will not—said there will not be troops on the ground. Colonel Roland Lavoie, NATO spokesman, said, quote, "We will keep up pressure until there are no more attacks on the civilian population." He added, "In sum, our mission is not over yet."
To discuss these developments, we’re joined by Phyllis Bennis, a fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies. She’s written a number of books, including Challenging Empire: How People, Governments, and the U.N. Defy U.S. Power.
Welcome to Democracy Now!, Phyllis.
PHYLLIS BENNIS: Thanks, Amy.
Your latest piece at AlterNet is called "Qaddafi’s Whereabouts Unknown—But Is It Too Soon to Declare Victory in Libya?" Explain.
PHYLLIS BENNIS: I think that there’s been a rush to judgment, if you will, that the fact that rebels from the Western Mountains were able to enter Tripoli without too much fighting on the way and to occupy parts of the city, that somehow that meant the fall of the regime. It clearly does not. The fighting is continuing. The dying is continuing. The one thing we knew was that taking Tripoli was going to lead to significant civilian deaths, probably on all sides, as well as military deaths on all sides. So I think that this is a very difficult time in Libya.
And the role of NATO, the U.S., Qatar, the outside forces that have been involved, both directly and indirectly, both funding and training the Libyan opposition, and, on the part of the U.S. and other NATO forces, acting as, as one reporter described it, the air force of the opposition’s army, has reshaped the reality that began in the context of the Arab Spring as an indigenous Libyan uprising against a 42-year dictatorship. Now it’s very unclear whether what is happening is more in the interests of the people of Libya or more in the interests of NATO, the U.S. and other outside powers.
AMY GOODMAN: State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland was asked yesterday what NATO’s future in Libya will be.
VICTORIA NULAND: My sense is that NATO obviously needs to maintain its vigilance, as it has said, until the situation is stable and peaceful and all of Libya is under the TNC and Libyan people’s control, so that job continues. With regard to onward future mission for NATO, I don’t think anybody is envisioning boots on the ground, but I think we need to wait and see. NATO has a long tradition of supporting the U.N., supporting the European Union, other international organizations, in humanitarian relief, other things like that. So, let’s just wait and see what’s needed.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland. Phyllis Bennis, your response?
PHYLLIS BENNIS: I think that the notion that NATO has to be wary and has to watch is a misnomer. NATO is a player in the civil war in Libya, and it is continuing its role as a major player. I think that what we’re looking at—there are already boots on the ground, not in large numbers. This is not like Iraq. We have to be careful. This is not like Afghanistan. This is not a NATO occupation of Libya, although there are some special forces and training and other things going on on the ground, but not in large numbers. The large military role of NATO, the U.S., Qatar, other countries, is in air power. And air power has been absolutely decisive in recent days in what has made it possible for the rebels to move so quickly into Tripoli.
I think that there—we have to look at the speech, for example, of the Leader of the National Transitional Council, who spoke yesterday at a very celebratory press conference, I think rather prematurely, in which he thanked the international community as a whole for their support but went on to specifically single out the countries that had provided specific support to the TNC and to the opposition in Libya and indicated very directly that they would be given—they would not be forgotten. They would be given, presumably, special privileges in the future, if the TNC, when the TNC, in his view, should take power. The assumption I made was that his reference is to privileged access to oil contracts, privileged access to perhaps bases, to the very strategic location of Libya, that all of that would be made available in a more privileged way to those countries that had played such a direct role in this civil war.
I think that we are in a situation where the TNC has been recognized now by the U.S., by most of the European countries, by 30 different countries, as the legitimate representative of Libya, at a time when it’s not clear how much legitimacy it has inside the country. Some of the rebel fighters from Misurata, for instance, have been very explicit. They told Patrick Cockburn, writing in The Independent yesterday—they told him directly they do not believe that the TNC represents them. Rebels coming into the mountain—down from the mountains into Tripoli yesterday were reported to be rolling their eyes when asked about the TNC. They don’t believe that it’s their representative. The rebel forces inside Libya—inside Tripoli, sorry—inside Tripoli have not been involved in the TNC, partly for military reality reasons. The military situation has not allowed that. But we also don’t know what their view is inside Tripoli.
What we saw last night, the footage of celebrations on the streets of some parts of Tripoli, were celebrations by the armed rebels who had entered the city coming down from the mountain. They were not the civilian population welcoming in the rebels and celebrating with them in the street. Some of that may have been fear. We know that many civilians inside Tripoli are trying to leave. But the result is, you have a situation where we don’t really know what the population of Tripoli, which amounts to a third the population of the country, what they think. We saw no women on the streets. There were no civilians, no old people, no children celebrating. These were armed rebels with their weapons, holding their weapons above their heads as they celebrated entry into the capital. This is not yet the people of the capital coming out to join them.
AMY GOODMAN: The New York Times says, "The fighting is not [yet] over in Tripoli, but the scramble to secure access to Libya’s oil wealth has [already] begun." Oil firms in Libya include BP of Britain, Total of France, Repsol YPF of Spain, U.S. companies like Hess, ConocoPhillips, Marathon. The significance of the oil politics in Libya, Phyllis?
PHYLLIS BENNIS: Well, I think the Times is a little bit late. I think that access to oil contracts was very much a part—it wasn’t the only part, but it was one part—of the reasons that this war went ahead. It wasn’t directly a war for oil, in the sense that the U.S. and European oil companies, all these international companies that you just mentioned, already were in bed with the Gaddafi regime. They were already giving—getting enormous access to Libyan oil. So it wasn’t simply to get access. It was in recognition that there was a change underway.
Again, the Libyan revolutionary process began in the context of the Arab Spring as a whole. And in the early stages, it wasn’t at all clear which side was going to win out. At a certain point, there was a recognition that, as in many other countries, a dictatorship that has little popularity among the population is not likely to survive for long, and so you have these great powers from outside trying to position themselves in a place where they could ensure future access both to oil directly as well as control of things like refugee flows. Many different rationales were involved, especially for Europeans. For the U.S., one of the key rationales was, once European allies were involved in—militarily involvement in Libya, there was an urging by the U.S. to join that, so that they could keep the Europeans on board in Afghanistan. So all of these features were at play.
Now, the question of making sure that in a future—in a future Libya that is assumed, perhaps prematurely, but perhaps will be a post-Gaddafi Libya, they want to position themselves in a way to get continuing access to those oil contracts. It’s not about access to the oil itself. That will be on a global market. It will be part of it. It’s about control. It’s about controlling the terms of those contracts. It’s about controlling amounts that are being pumped at different times. It’s about controlling prices. It’s about controlling that crucial resource.
AMY GOODMAN: Reporting from The Independent, the longtime Middle East correspondent Robert Fisk wrote, "We have spent far too much time honouring the courage of Libyan 'freedom fighters' as they scurried across the desert floor, far too little time examining the nature of the beast, the glutinous Transitional National Council whose supposed leader, Mustafa Abdul Jalil, has still been unable to explain if his own chums connived in the murder of their own army commander last month. Already, the West is offering lessons in democracy to New Libya, indulgently telling its unelected leadership how to avoid the chaos which we ourselves inflicted on the Iraqis when we [quote] 'liberated' them eight years ago. Who will get the backhanders in the new regime—democratic or not—once it is in place?" he asks. Phyllis?
PHYLLIS BENNIS: He asks all the right questions. What I was saying earlier, I think, is crucial about the lack of clear support for the TNC from many different sectors in Libya, including important sectors of the revolutionary forces themselves, the opposition forces, the rebels, whatever we want to call them. The anti-Gaddafi forces are themselves incredibly divided. And in that situation, the U.S. and its allies have honed in on one sector of that opposition force, the TNC, the Transitional National Council, and said, "We’re going to anoint you the officials." And, of course, by doing so, they give them even more power.
There’s now talk of releasing frozen Libyan assets that are in U.S. and European banks, in the billions of dollars, billions of euros. And if that money is immediately released and turned over to this unrepresentative TNC, it’s going to empower them, disempower other forces within the opposition movement, and set the stage for ongoing and very serious chaos, which doesn’t necessarily mean it will look like Iraq. It may or may not take an internal military form. But it’s certainly not something that we can assume will not happen. This is now a highly armed country. Everyone on all sides now is armed. And with that kind of exacerbating features that happens when one faction of a multi-faction movement is adopted by the West, given not only credibility and credentials of the West, but given billions of dollars to determine how to rebuild the country, in whose image, you’re setting the stage for a very difficult, very contentious period, assuming that a post-Gaddafi period is even in the works right now.
AMY GOODMAN: There’s the NATO news conference going on as we broadcast this, and the spokesperson was asked, "What if NATO tracks Gaddafi fleeing by satellite? Would they target him?" He said, "We do not target individuals, and Gaddafi is not a target," from NATO. They did say, however, "We do target command-and-control facilities. If he is in one of those, those are legitimate targets, we will strike." Phyllis?
PHYLLIS BENNIS: I think what they’re referring to is that if they know where Gaddafi is, if he’s in a car, that car will become a command-and-control center, and they will strike that car, knowing who’s in it. I think there’s no question here that there would be that kind of a strike. The notion that the goal would be to capture Gaddafi and bring him to trial, bring him to justice in the International Criminal Court in The Hague, would not be on the agenda.
AMY GOODMAN: It’s also interesting, when asked if they know where he is, they said, "If you know, let me know. We don’t have a clue. I’m not sure it matters. He’s not a key player anymore."
PHYLLIS BENNIS: Well, that’s, on the one hand, a bit optimistic. Certainly symbolically, Gaddafi remains a very key player. Whether he’s actually calling the shots in how his forces are conducting the fight inside Tripoli, we certainly don’t know, but he remains a symbolic center. This was very much a one-man operation, expanded only slightly to his family and close allies in Libya. It was a very different situation in that way than, say, Saddam Hussein’s government in Iraq, to which it’s sometimes compared.
Gaddafi did not create, in his revolutionary process, when he took power in the '60s at the very young age of only 27—he did not create an entirely new system of governing. It was—it was odd. It was something he called "green socialism." But it was a system that was denied the reality of acknowledging there was a system. There were no real institutions. There was no parliament. There was no voting. Representational democracy was considered inherently flawed. The idea was everybody in the country could vote by raising their hands or something. The result was, Gaddafi never had an official title other than Brother Leader or Colonel sometimes. He wasn't officially the president. There was no presidency. So, the institutions of governance never really existed.
That’s one of the things that is such a challenge and is going to be an even greater challenge in the future for the anti-Gaddafi forces, the opposition forces that are struggling to take power now in Libya, even aside from the problem they will face with the dominance of NATO and other outside military forces. They are facing a situation where you have a country of about six-and-a-half million people with no national structures in place. In that situation, Gaddafi, as the centerpiece, becomes crucially important as a symbol of the nation. He becomes Libya. And so, his role is far from over, despite what NATO may like to believe.
AMY GOODMAN: Phyllis Bennis, we want to thank you for being with us, fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies. We will link to your articles at democracynow.org. Among her books, Challenging Empire: How People, Governments, and the U.N. Defy U.S. Power.

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Another Update On #Libya

This stuff is taking so long to get on US media, I thought I'd send it out.  I really hate this #breakingnews stuff -- it's not my thing.

Anyway, Saif Kaddafi was never captured.  He appeared at the journalists hotel and took photos and made a brief speech.  I'll have a good transcript when it is available.  One correction in the translation: he is translated as saying "Screw the International Court."  He actually said, as best I can make it out, "Fart on the International Court."

Mohammed, also reported on our media as captured, called Russia and talked a bit, then put his father on the phone.  Both are doing "fine."  Gaddafi himself chatted with his old chess buddy as well.

It has been reported that the main compound has been captured, but the repost comes from the same sources that gave us the reporst mentioned above.  Frankly, I don't know what the hell is going on.

Here is a screen capture from #Libya from Twitter, the good, the bad, and the ugly:

 
Matthew Chance
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