Jerusalem and the World

THE ABSURD TIMES

But we got Togo on our side.

The Absurd Times has no affiliation with this current administration.

Now, the Edward Said Chair at Columbia University was created in honor of the great author with that name.  His book, titled Orientalism is a seminal work in understanding the actions of the west, especially Britain and France in colonizing the Mid-East and the subsequent takeover by the United States by Eisenhower, which at the time was a bold move and an honest one.

The chair is now held by Rashid Khalidi, a Palestinian from Chicago.  He was of great assistance to Obama in finding lodgings and took care of him in his earlier years in the City.  At the time, Obama was very pro-Palestinian.  By the time he was inaugurated, Obama did not even invite him to the ceremony.  Even Jimmie Carter invited Arlo Guthrie (just as a contrast).

Khalidi is very well-respected in academic circles, despite Zionist pressures against him (remember Norm Finklestein?).  At any rate, here is his take on Trump's recognition of Jerusalem.  [Trump fits in well with the "Christian Zionists" who believe the "Rapture" will come as soon as Israel takes over the entire area, including Bethlehem.]: 

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At the United Nations, over 120 countries defied President Trump Thursday by voting in favor of a resolution calling for the United States to drop its recent recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital. The final vote was 128 to 9, while 35 nations abstained and 21 countries casted no vote. Control of Jerusalem is one of the most contested issues: Palestinians see East Jerusalem as the capital of their future state. Sustained protests continue in the Israel-occupied Palestinian territories, despite a brutal Israeli military crackdown. We speak with Rashid Khalidi, the Edward Said professor of Arab studies at Columbia University and author of "Brokers of Deceit: How the U.S. Has Undermined Peace in the Middle East."

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Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: At the United Nations, over 120 countries defied President Trump Thursday by voting in favor of a resolution calling for the United States to drop its recent recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital. The final vote, 128 to 9. Thirty-five nations abstained, and 21 countries did not cast a vote. The eight countries voting with the United States were Israel, Guatemala, Honduras, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau and Togo. Trump had threatened to cut off financial aid to countries that voted in favor. On Thursday, Nikki Haley, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, reiterated Trump's threat after the vote.

NIKKI HALEY: America will put our embassy in Jerusalem. That is what the American people want us to do. And it is the right thing to do. No vote in the United Nations will make any difference on that. But this vote will make a difference on how Americans look at the U.N. and on how we look at countries who disrespect us in the U.N. And this vote will be remembered.

AMY GOODMAN: In response to the U.N. vote, Palestinian politician Hanan Ashrawi praised the international community for standing up to the United States.

HANAN ASHRAWI: Well, I'm extremely encouraged that the vast majority of the states, of the members of the United Nations General Assembly did not succumb to American threats and blackmail, and did not accept the Israeli insults being hurled at them, and they stood up for justice and for the rule of law and for what is right. And they voted on the basis of principle. Hundred and twenty-eight countries told the U.S. and Israel that what they're doing is wrong and unacceptable, and they voted for Jerusalem. They voted for the U.N. as an institution of integrity. They voted for the rule of law and for the requirements of a just peace.

AMY GOODMAN: Former CIA Director John Brennan responded to the vote, posting a message on his new Twitter account, tweeting, "Trump Admin threat to retaliate against nations that exercise sovereign right in UN to oppose US position on Jerusalem is beyond outrageous. Shows @realDonaldTrump expects blind loyalty and subservience from everyone—qualities usually found in narcissistic, vengeful autocrats," the former CIA Director John Brennan tweeted.

Control of Jerusalem is one of the most contested issues: Palestinians see East Jerusalem as the capital of their future state. Sustained protests continue in the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories, despite a brutal Israeli crackdown. On Wednesday, dozens of Palestinian protesters were wounded after Israeli soldiers opened fire with live ammunition and tear gas against thousands of protesters. This is Hamas official Ismail Radwan.

ISMAIL RADWAN: [translated] We call on our Arabic and Muslim nations to surround the Israeli and American embassies in the Arab countries, then drive the American and Israeli ambassadors out of the Arab countries. We are continuing our way of resistance, using all kinds of resistance to break this decision.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, for more, we're joined by Rashid Khalidi, the Edward Said professor of Arab studies at Columbia University, author of a number of books, his most recent, Brokers of Deceit: How the U.S. Has Undermined Peace in the Middle East.

Welcome back to Democracy Now!, Professor Khalidi. Your response to the U.N. General Assembly vote, 128 to 9?

RASHID KHALIDI: Well, it's yet another instance of the Trump administration shooting themselves in the foot, making a big issue of a question where the entire world, with the exception of nine countries, are in agreement, that there is international law on this issue. The Security Council decisions, that the United States voted for, are international law. And the United States is violating it. So, it shouldn't be surprising that there was such a tiny number of states voting with the United States.

AMY GOODMAN: And what about the abstentions, the significance of—what was it? Like 35?

RASHID KHALIDI: This is almost—

AMY GOODMAN: What does that say?

RASHID KHALIDI: It's almost the same vote as we had in 2012 for Palestine as a state. So, there's basically no change. Trump's blackmail and bluster didn't seem to have had much effect.

AMY GOODMAN: And Nikki Haley and President Trump's threat to cut off aid, foreign aid, to countries who vote against the U.S., which would mean the majority of the world?

RASHID KHALIDI: Precisely. I think most people said what anybody who looks at this carefully would say. Jerusalem is central to Palestine. Jerusalem is central to the whole issue. And if you prejudge something in favor of one party, in violation of international law, you're just taking yourself out of the international consensus.

AMY GOODMAN: On Thursday, the U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Nikki Haley, defended President Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

NIKKI HALEY: The decision was in accordance to U.S. law dating back to 1995. And its position has been repeatedly endorsed by the American people ever since. The decision does not prejudge any final status issues, including Jerusalem's boundaries. The decision does not preclude a two-state solution, if the parties agree to that. The decision does nothing to harm peace efforts. Rather, the president's decision reflects the will of the American people.

AMY GOODMAN: Your response to the U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Haley?

RASHID KHALIDI: There's not one single thing that Nikki Haley said that's true. Sixty-one percent of people polled were against this in the United States, so it does not represent the will of the American people.

Secondly, this not only damages the prospects of peace, this completely eliminates the United States as a potential broker. I wrote a book, Brokers of Deceit, in which I argue the United States has always been a dishonest broker. So, to my way of thinking, this is actually a silver lining in a cloud. The United States should be removed from its role. It should sit on the Israeli side of the table, if it insists on being there. But it has no place setting the ground rules for a negotiation.

Everything else that Nikki Haley said is also untrue. By accepting Jerusalem as Israel's capital, implicitly, the Trump administration is accepting Israel's definition of Jerusalem, which runs all the way down, almost, to the Jordan River. They're about to annex Ma'ale Adumim, Khan al-Ahmar, which means Israel now controls a swath, or will control or will have annexed a swath, running all across the center of Palestine, cutting the northern part of the West Bank off from the southern part. That's the kind of thing that makes a Palestinian state completely impossible. So, everything she said is false.

AMY GOODMAN: Talk about the protests on the ground, Israeli forces increasingly repressive in the Occupied Territories, human rights groups deeply concerned about the number of arrests, the detaining of children, sometimes holding them without trial, as the protests continue to rage over President Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

On Tuesday, Israeli soldiers and border police raided the home of prominent 16-year-old Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi, a day after video showing her confronting Israeli soldiers went viral. After Tamimi's arrest, the girl's mother, Nariman Tamimi, was detained at an Israeli police station as she inquired about the status of her daughter.

And then you've got this other case, witnesses say that 17-year-old Abdul-Khalik Burnat was arrested earlier this week when he went out for pizza with friends. Burnat's father is Iyad Burnat, a leader of a nonviolent Palestinian resistance group whose work was highlighted in the Oscar-nominated documentary Five Broken Cameras. What about all of these situations?

RASHID KHALIDI: Well, in the last case, the Israelis have been persecuting that family for a very long time, because they're leading a nonviolent movement, which is exactly what the Israelis don't want to appear. They don't want it to be realized that they're holding an entire people down by force, and that when they rise up, even nonviolently, Israel cannot tolerate that.

And the sad thing is, there's nothing exceptional about these shootings or these detentions. This is the only way that an occupying force can hold millions of people down against their will for 50 years. The response to the Jerusalem decision is a normal response. People are outraged. And the Israelis respond by arresting children, holding them without a lawyer, without their parents, interrogating them and, in many cases, putting them in administrative detention. The sad thing is that there's nothing new about this. This is the way a military occupation has to operate and will operate, until somebody stops it.

AMY GOODMAN: And Ahed Tamimi?

RASHID KHALIDI: Well, I mean, she's a very courageous girl. She did what she did, you saw on that piece of video. And typically, she and her parents are probably going to suffer for her action. There's no recourse. Israeli military courts are kangaroo courts. Ninety-nine-point-something percent of people brought before them are convicted. So, there is no justice in the holy land, where the Palestinians are concerned.

AMY GOODMAN: The United Nations' top human rights official recently condemned the killing of 29-year-old Palestinian Ibrahim Abu Thuraya, who was shot in the head by an Israeli sniper last Friday during a protest in the Gaza Strip. Abu Thuraya was a double-amputee who lost both legs and a kidney in 2008 during an Israeli airstrike, and used a wheelchair. This is Rupert Colville, spokesperson for the U.N.'s Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights.

RUPERT COLVILLE: As far as we can see, there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that Ibrahim Abu Thuraya was posing an imminent threat of death or serious injury when he was killed. In the words of the high commissioner, given his severe disability, which must have been clearly visible to those who shot him, his killing is incomprehensible, and it is a truly shocking and wanton act.

AMY GOODMAN: Your response to this U.N. spokesperson?

RASHID KHALIDI: These are generally snipers, using scopes. So, this man was murdered by an Israeli soldier, who saw him crawling, without legs, towards the border fence. He obviously could not have posed the slightest threat to the security of the state of Israel or to anybody, except himself, because he defied the occupation.

AMY GOODMAN: So, what is going to happen right now in the Occupied Territories? What does this mean for the Palestinian leadership?

RASHID KHALIDI: Well, I think it puts the Palestinian leadership and many Arab governments in a difficult position, which is a good thing. I think they should be forced, at this stage, by public opinion, as they were—as the vote shows many Arab governments were, to do the right thing. The right thing would be to say, "We refuse the United States as a mediator"—which the Arab League has actually said and the Islamic Conference has already said—"and we insist on a completely new framework for negotiations. We insist on a fair two-state solution, not based on cherry-picked resolutions that the United States and Israel decide should be the basis." I mean, this is actually an opportunity, if it will only be taken, by governments that, unfortunately, are all too frequently willing to listen to what the United States tells them, in a bullying, threatening tone.

AMY GOODMAN: How different is what Trump did from what President Obama did? I didn't say "said." His rhetoric is very different.

RASHID KHALIDI: Right.

AMY GOODMAN: But even when he made this announcement, and then, with a flourish, showed this document he was signing—

RASHID KHALIDI: Right.

AMY GOODMAN: —to the cameras in front of him at the White House, people didn't realize at the time he was signing the very waiver that Trump and—that Obama and Clinton had signed before—

RASHID KHALIDI: Right, right.

AMY GOODMAN: —a waiver that said they wouldn't build the embassy in Jerusalem for at least another six months.

RASHID KHALIDI: You're absolutely right. The difference is the action. The difference is—the embassy is not going to be moved for a while. But declaring that the United States supports the Israeli position on Jerusalem is of enormous material importance. It means that the United States has taken a stand on the most important issue. Jerusalem relates to sovereignty. Jerusalem relates to settlements. Jerusalem relates obviously to the holy places. And Jerusalem relates to borders. Even if you say this doesn't prejudge borders, the Israelis have a definition of Jerusalem. You've just recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The Israelis are going to take this and run with it. So, it is of enormous importance. Other presidents have said—in fact, going back to Clinton, presidents have said, "We want to move the embassy," or "We will move the embassy," but they haven't done it, and they haven't accepted the Israeli position, as President Trump has just done.

AMY GOODMAN: And no country—no country has their embassy—is that right?—in Jerusalem.

RASHID KHALIDI: That is correct.

AMY GOODMAN: They all have them in Tel Aviv.

RASHID KHALIDI: That is correct. Even those who said, "We accept West Jerusalem as Israel's capital," have said, "But we won't move until a negotiation resolves this issue."

AMY GOODMAN: What about Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia was critical, but—and immediately, Trump attacked, interestingly, what seems to be one of his closest allies, Saudi Arabia, for saying this. But behind the scenes, what is Saudi Arabia saying, do you believe?

RASHID KHALIDI: I mean, what we hear—I mean, I was recently in the region twice. And what I gather is that Jared Kushner and the crown prince are cooking up a plan for what they call a Palestinian state, which would not include Jerusalem, which would not be sovereign, which would not be contiguous and which would have to negotiate for its borders. In other words, you declare the state, then you go into another interim period. We've been in an interim period since 1993—25, almost, years. Actually, 25 years next year. And this is what this administration and, apparently, the Saudis are cooking up. It is a travesty. I mean, it would be an insult to apartheid South Africa to call what they're offering a Bantustan.

AMY GOODMAN: Apparently, President Trump, in just speaking to the British prime minister, Theresa May, singled out Mohammad bin Salman around the Saudi war in Yemen, the U.S.-backed Saudi war. He seems to be ruffled by what Saudi Arabia said about Israel. But, as you pointed out, Jared Kushner is extremely close to Salman and has been there a number of times. Trump made his first trip there.

RASHID KHALIDI: Right. He has apparently made several unannounced trips, Kushner has, to Saudi Arabia. I think the president's pique over Yemen is new. But the United States actually took a position on the Yemeni war—sorry, on the Saudi war on Yemen a while before this Jerusalem decision. I find that a little bit strange, frankly. This is a war that could only be prosecuted with American support. It's a war that, for two years, has had American support. And now—

AMY GOODMAN: And Trump announced he was giving more weapons to them for that war.

RASHID KHALIDI: Precisely. And now he is—now he's criticizing this. It could be partly because of Jerusalem. But, in fact, I think it goes back before that. They may be embarrassed by the fact they've helped to create the largest humanitarian disaster in the modern world. Perhaps—I doubt that they're capable of shame, but perhaps they're slightly embarrassed by this.

AMY GOODMAN: Talk about what you see as a solution in the—

RASHID KHALIDI: In Palestine?

AMY GOODMAN: —for Palestine.

RASHID KHALIDI: Well, it has to be based on complete equality of rights. In other words, if Israel or Israelis get certain rights, Palestinians have to have the same rights. It has to be based on a principle of justice. It cannot be based a cherry-picked set of resolutions that give Israel pretty much everything it wants, or a framework for negotiation where everything is tipped in Israel's favor. That means you have to have a framework and an outside mediator that's completely different from everything that we've dealt with since Camp David back in the '70s up through Oslo in the '90s.

AMY GOODMAN: Who do you think that mediator can be?

RASHID KHALIDI: Anybody but the United States would be my personal pick, literally any country, except the eight small tiny countries that voted with the United States. So, take your pick of the other 178-88, whatever, countries.

AMY GOODMAN: The piece you wrote in The Guardian is headlined "Trump's error on Jerusalem is a disaster for the Arab world … and the US too."

RASHID KHALIDI: Mm-hmm. Well, I wrote a later piece in which I said there are silver linings to those clouds. It is a disaster, because it's a slap in the face of the Arabs. It's an indication of exactly how divided and weak the Arab world is, if the United States can take a position in support of the Israeli position on the most important question at issue in the entire conflict since the '40s. I mean, Jerusalem was singled out in the 1947 partition resolution for special treatment, and it's been treated as special. And the Trump administration has just said, "We don't care about what any of you think—international law, Arabs. We're going to go ahead and do what we think is right."

But they should and could use this as an opportunity and say, "OK, fine. You've disqualified yourself as a broker, an intermediary. Very good. We'll find another one." Five—the other four permanent members of the Security Council—China, EU, Brazil—it almost doesn't matter—India—a collection of large countries that could presumably be immune to the browbeating and pressure and blackmail that the United States customarily exercises, usually behind the scenes. This is unusual in that they've gone out publicly with it.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you think the two-state solution is dead?

RASHID KHALIDI: I think Israel has systematically murdered it over 50 years. I mean, everything that they have done, in terms of colonization, occupation and seizure of land, pretty much makes a two-state solution impossible. Tony Judt once said, what one politician has done, another politician can undo. I would like to see the American president and the Israeli prime minister, who is going to uproot 600,000 Israeli citizens from the territories they've systematically colonized for 50 years—if it could be done, maybe you could have a two-state solution. But I don't think it can be done.

I think we're stuck with the one-state solution that Israel has created. The only question is: Will this be a apartheid or a completely discriminatory one-state solution, which is what we have now, or will it be one in which both peoples have national rights and everybody has equal rights, you don't have special rights because you have this ethnicity or this religion?

AMY GOODMAN: Talk about what's happening on the ground in Gaza right now.

RASHID KHALIDI: You have a—I mean, what's happening in Yemen and what's happening in Syria dwarfs it, in a certain sense. But this is a humanitarian crisis that's actually been going on for more than a decade. You have groundwater that's polluted with sewage, which can't be pumped because there's no electricity, which is where there's salinity increasing because seawater seeps in. You have these cuts in electricity. You have people unable to rebuild, in many cases, since 2014, the last Israeli assault on Gaza. You have people living in the largest open-air prison on Earth. And it has been going on for the better part of a decade.

So, again, Syria, Yemen, certainly, are much more grave crises today in terms of the humanitarian situation. But Gaza is a running sore, a festering sore, and it should be something that is a shame to the international community, that it allows Israel and Egypt and the Palestinian Authority and Hamas to, in effect, torture the people of Gaza in this way.

AMY GOODMAN: Rashid Khalidi, we want to thank you for being with us, Edward Said professor of Arab studies at Columbia University, the author of several books, his most recent, Brokers of Deceit: How the U.S. Has Undermined Peace in the Middle East.

This is Democracy Now! When we come back, not guilty on all counts. That's the verdict in the first J20 trial, the trial of the protesters of Donald Trump's inauguration. Stay with us.

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Gerusalemme Liberata

THE ABSURD TIMES

Illustration titled "The day the music died" 

Our title for this piece comes from a Renaissance epic by Tasso

Please note: All of the persons in the following transcript are female and therefore must be believed.  (Sorry, that's a bit bitter, but it sadly rings true.  I'll post a transcript of Frankin's announcement when it is available.)  Furthermore, at least two of the women are Jewish and therefore are telling the truth.  There can be no doubts whatsoever.

Trump's announcement simply cannot be allowed to pass without comment.  We all need time off, but this is insane.   His actions yesterday, 12/06/2017, have isolated us from the rest of the world, or civilized world, and this state of affairs will continue into future generations and administrations. 

Palestinians are protesting in cities across the West Bank and Gaza Strip after President Trump announced Wednesday that he would recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and initiate a process of moving the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. The announcement sparked a massive international backlash, with leaders of Britain, France, Iran, Jordan, Egypt, the Arab League and other nations all criticizing the move. Meanwhile, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called it an "important step toward peace." We go to Ramallah to speak with Hanan Ashrawi, Palestinian politician and scholar. She was elected an Executive Committee member of the Palestine Liberation Organization in 2009, becoming the first woman to hold a seat in the highest executive body in Palestine. She also served as the official spokesperson of the Palestinian delegation to the Middle East peace process.

Transcript

EN SHAIKH: Palestinians are protesting in cities across the West Bank and Gaza Strip after President Trump announced Wednesday that he would recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and initiate a process of moving the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Today, we finally acknowledge the obvious, that Jerusalem is Israel's capital. This is nothing more or less than a recognition of reality. It is also the right thing to do. It's something that has to be done. That is why, consistent with the Jerusalem Embassy Act, I am also directing the State Department to begin preparation to move the American Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Despite his announcement, Trump, like past U.S. presidents, signed a waiver that keeps the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv. This waiver has been signed by U.S. presidents every six months since 1995. White House officials say the waiver prevents a cut in State Department funding provided by the act until the new embassy is opened. The move is expected to take at least three years. Currently, 86 nations have their embassies in Tel Aviv. No country has an embassy in Jerusalem.

Control of Jerusalem is one of the most contested issues between Israelis and Palestinians. The Israeli military seized control of East Jerusalem in 1967 and has occupied the territory ever since. Palestinians, however, have long seen East Jerusalem as the capital of their future country. Since 1967, the U.N. Security Council and U.N. General Assembly have passed dozens of resolutions calling for Israel to end its occupation of East Jerusalem.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said Trump's order meant the United States had abdicated its role as a mediator in the Middle East peace process. Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said, quote, "President Trump just destroyed any policy of a two-state solution." Abbas is in Jordan today for talks with Jordan's King Abdullah, who has come out strongly against the move.

AMY GOODMAN: In a rare rebuke, Saudi Arabia's Royal Court said the order was "unjustified and irresponsible." The Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said Trump had thrown the Middle East into a, quote, "ring of fire." The announcement has also sparked a massive international backlash, with the prime minister of Britain, France, Iran, Jordan, Egypt, the Arab League and other nations also criticizing the move. Meanwhile, the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, alone among world leaders, said publicly the move was an "important step toward peace."

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: [translated] I would like to use this occasion to announce that we are already in contact with other countries which will issue a similar recognition. I have no doubt that the moment the American Embassy moves to Jerusalem, and even before then, there will be a movement of many embassies to Jerusalem. The time has come. Welcome to Jerusalem, the capital of the Jewish state of Israel. If you weren't aware of that until yesterday, you are now. But we have been aware of it for 3,000 years.

AMY GOODMAN: Reuters reports the U.S. State Department privately asked Israel to temper its response to Trump's announcement, in a memo, writing, quote, "While I recognize that you will publicly welcome this news, I ask that you restrain your official response. … We expect there to be resistance to this news in the Middle East and around the world. We are still judging the impact this decision will have on US facilities and personnel overseas."

Minutes after Trump's speech, American embassies in Turkey, Jordan, Germany and Britain issued security alerts. Hamas has called for a new uprising in the Palestinian territories and declared Friday a day of rage. Today, at checkpoint near Ramallah, Israeli forces fired dozens of rounds of tear gas and stun grenades at hundreds of Palestinian protesters. Clashes were also reported in East Jerusalem and at the border fence between Israel and Gaza. The United Nations Security Council is expected to meet Friday to discuss the move.

For more, we go first to Ramallah, where we're joined by Dr. Hanan Ashrawi, Palestinian diplomat and scholar, elected an Executive Committee member of the Palestine Liberation Organization, the PLO, in 2009, becoming the first woman to hold a seat in the highest executive body in Palestine. She also served as the official spokesperson of the Palestinian delegation to the Middle East peace process.

We welcome you to Democracy Now!, Dr. Hanan Ashrawi. Your response to President Trump's move yesterday?

HANAN ASHRAWI: Thank you. Well, first of all, I think this is an outrageous move. It's an irresponsible move. It's the epitome of recklessness. It is something that not only violates international law, destroys the chances of peace, but also places the U.S. squarely on the side of lawlessness and illegality by becoming complicit in Israeli occupation and Israel's illegal annexation of Jerusalem, and therefore losing any standing or credibility to take part in any type of pursuit of peace. This is an act of supreme provocation. And the Palestinian people and all people of good conscience feel actually quite upset with this decision. And most people just can't believe that one person can embark on such a course of action that has such serious ramifications throughout the region and the world.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Dr. Ashrawi, could you explain what you think the reason is for Trump having made this announcement now?

HANAN ASHRAWI: Well, there could be many, many reasons. One could be lack of knowledge of what's happening, lack of depth of perception, lack of analytical skills. Another could be the team he's put together, that is so incredibly pro-Israeli that they do not see—they do not make sense when it comes to approaching peace. It could be also that he has domestic problems, and this is another diversionary tactic for which other people will pay a very heavy price for a very long time, because he is in trouble. Or it could be because he wants to pander to what he calls his base—the extreme Zionist evangelicals or AIPAC and their ilk, the extreme-right-wing ideologues who are pro-Israeli. All these are no justification. All these are very flimsy and cheap excuses, frankly. And I don't see how anyone who has any sense or any knowledge of the reality and the facts would embark on such a dangerous course of action.

AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Ashrawi, how different is this from past presidents? I mean, Barack Obama had said that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. He signed the waiver every six months. President Trump said that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. And though a lot of media didn't report it at first—they didn't even realize what he had signed—in fact, he signed, once again, that six-month waiver. I watched Dan Shapiro, a man you probably know well, who was—

HANAN ASHRAWI: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: —President Obama's ambassador to Israel for years. And when he was asked on CNN what he thought, he said he didn't think this was a bad idea. In fact, he thought the mistake was that Donald Trump had signed the waiver. Why not just follow through and move the embassy to Jerusalem? Your thoughts?

HANAN ASHRAWI: Yeah, yeah. Well, now you're seeing Dan Shapiro's true colors. When he was ambassador under Barack Obama, he was trying to convey an impression that he was even-handed. But after he stopped being ambassador, he stayed in Israel. He's an Israeli citizen. He's working for an Israeli organization. And so, his true colors are out there. He is incredibly pro-Israel and Zionist, to the point where he's trying to outdo Trump.

Now, with Barack Obama, I mean, he himself started on a course of action to stop settlement activities and to find a just peace. But then the Israelis took all sorts of preemptive actions in order to put him on the defensive, by calling him, you know, Muslim or anti-Israeli—he had to prove his credentials always to Israel—by saying he's taking measures that would undermine American-Israeli relations and so on. So he spent—he backed down on the issue of settlements and Jerusalem, and he spent seven years of his tenure trying to prove he was good for Israel, to the point where he gave Israel more funding, more support, more military support, and committed pledges of $38 billion to Israel before he left office. But at the last minute, he actually took one step, where he refrained from vetoing U.N. Security Council Resolution 2334, that calls Israeli settlements illegal and calls on Israel to withdraw and to stop its settlement activities everywhere, including Jerusalem.

AMY GOODMAN: We're going to continue this discussion after break. We're speaking to Dr. Hanan Ashrawi, Palestinian politician and scholar. When we come back, we'll expand our discussion to East Jerusalem and here in New York. This is Democracy Now! Back in a minute.

As Palestinians protest President Trump's announcement that he would recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and begin moving the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, we go to East Jerusalem to speak with Budour Hassan, a Palestinian writer and project coordinator for the Jerusalem Center for Legal Aid and Human Rights, and speak with Rebecca Vilkomerson, executive director of Jewish Voice for Peace. We are also joined in Ramallah by Hanan Ashrawi, Palestinian politician and scholar.

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Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Palestinians are protesting in cities across the West Bank and Gaza Strip after President Trump announced Wednesday that he would recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and initiate a process of moving the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

AMY GOODMAN: We continue our conversation with Dr. Hanan Ashrawi, Palestinian politician in Ramallah, in the occupied West Bank. And we're joined in East Jerusalem by Budour Hassan, a Palestinian writer and project coordinator for the Jerusalem Center for Legal Aid and Human Rights. Here in New York, Rebecca Vilkomerson is with us, executive director of Jewish Voice for Peace.

And we welcome you all to Democracy Now! Let's go to East Jerusalem right now, where we want to turn to our guest in East Jerusalem, Budour Hassan. Your response in East Jerusalem, as you were listening to President Trump yesterday? And what is the response in the community?

BUDOUR HASSAN: Obviously, it was very frustrating to hear that coming from Trump, but it was not surprising, because U.S. complicity with the Israeli occupation is not new. It's something that has spanned over generations. And for Palestinians, it's something that is expected, because a nation like the United States, that has been built on colonization, it's only natural for them to support another colonizer state in Israel.

We obviously—while we are outraged, we know the reason for our outrage is not just Trump's declaration. Our reason for our outrage is that it was under President Obama that the U.S. pledged $38 billion of taxpayer—U.S. taxpayers' money to support Israel militarily. So this is why we are outraged. We are outraged because the Palestinian Authority continued to sell people the promise of negotiations and peace, and the result is that all these talks about peace and negotiations and the peace process, that has been going on for more than two decades, has only led us to this. And this is why people are protesting, because it's important to know that the young people, women and men, who are taking to the streets to tell President Trump and to tell the Palestinian Authority and to tell everyone that Jerusalem is and has always been and will always be Palestinian. But they are clear that their outrage is not simply about Trump. It's about an entire system that has denied Palestinians their rights.

And this declaration, to be honest, many of us are a bit relieved that we are finally seeing the true face of the so-called U.S.-Israel shared values. Trump—if anything, Trump is a personification of what many U.S. presidents have always tried to conceal or deny. He is saying it clear. He is not lying or cloaking his promise—his promises to Israel by fancy words about peace and negotiations. And this is why now our battle is much more clearer.

We know that this is a battle to reclaim our—to liberate our country, and also to dissolve the PA, because we believe—and many protesters have said that today and will continue to say that—that if the Palestinian Authority is actually right or true in its indignation about what Trump has done, it must be dissolved, first and foremost, and it must declare that the Oslo Accords are null. And it also must strip Israel of its recognition. Only when the Palestinian Authority does that, we can talk about the possibility of rebuilding a national movement. But meanwhile, we cannot take the anger of the PA seriously, while it continues to recognize Israel and the legitimacy of the Israeli state.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: President Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner is heading the Trump administration's efforts to broker an Israeli-Palestinian peace plan. But quietly, the Kushner Companies Charitable Foundation is continuing to fund a far-right-wing Israeli settlement in the West Bank that is considered illegal under international law. ProPublica reports that the Kushner Companies Charitable Foundation made a donation of at least $18,000 at the "Master Builders" level to American Friends of Bet El Yeshiva Center. While the charity has given to the settlement in the past, ProPublica reports this appears to be the first time they've done so while Kushner, whose title is senior adviser to the president, is the lead administration official brokering a peace plan. So, Rebecca Vilkomerson, you're the head of Jewish Voice for Peace. Could you comment on this, the fact that the president's son-in-law is part of a foundation that's providing funding to this far-right-wing group in Israel, and also what the response here in the U.S. has been among Jewish organizations to Trump's announcement yesterday?

REBECCA VILKOMERSON: Yeah. I mean, I think something that Budour Hassan said is very important, which is that in some ways, you know, we know there's going to be incredible damage from this announcement, but there is potentially a silver lining, which is that the U.S. ongoing policies of supporting Israel tacitly and being complicit in Israel's policies are being completely laid bare. And it's not just Jared Kushner. We have the U.S. ambassador, David Friedman, who has also been a personal fundraiser for settlements, as well. So we have the actual—

AMY GOODMAN: Who was Trump's bankruptcy lawyer.

REBECCA VILKOMERSON: Who was also Trump's bankruptcy lawyer, right. So we have these—so we have, you know, the highest officials in the Trump administration who have a clear interest not just in—you know, really, with the far-right extreme settlers, not just in the Israel government as it stands, which is already extremely right. And so, there is like—the bankruptcy and the hollowness of the idea that the U.S. could be a broker for peace, I think, is now very, very clear.

And I would also hope that the sort of broad swath of Americans who are completely horrified by Trump, generally, will sort of recognize the pattern here, and his recklessness and criminality and cruelty, that this is very much of a pattern. And so, that group of voters, who tend to support the way that the United States has interacted with Israel and the United States' support for Israel, will start to maybe question that and will be able to understand that and separate that out, in a way they weren't when Obama was indeed supporting Israel in the same way with military and economic and diplomatic aid.

In the Jewish community, you know, AIPAC is supporting this move. Some other big organizations are supporting this move. One of the organizations that I think was very surprising for many of us in the Jewish community was the Anti-Defamation League, strongly supported this move. And they're ostensibly a civil rights organization, but they're here taking a position that is absolutely against the human rights of Palestinians, not just who are living in Jerusalem, but all around the world. So I think there was a very strong reaction against their public statement in favor of this decision yesterday. And so, my hope is that this is an—the response to it is an indication of the shift in the Jewish community to really starting to understand that the United States can't keep playing this role.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask Dr. Hanan Ashrawi about the role of President Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner, who is also under an increasing microscope in investigations in Congress—

HANAN ASHRAWI: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: —and in the special prosecutor. You mentioned the political pressure at home. So, he spent a lot of time with the man known as MBS, the crown prince in Saudi Arabia, Mohammad bin Salman, is considered very close to him, not to mention extremely close to the prime minister of Israel, Netanyahu, who slept in his bedroom when he was growing up, when he would visit, before he was prime minister. Now, while Saudi Arabia has spoken out against Trump's move, there are some who are saying privately he has already checked with them and that they support him. Is this possible? What does this mean? And what about the role of Jared Kushner as the supposed peace negotiator in the Middle East between the Palestinians and the Israelis?

HANAN ASHRAWI: Well, there are several issues involved here and several layers of incompetence and the sins of omission and commission.

Number one, Jared Kushner is one of the most extreme Zionist individuals, who has habitually, as you said, supported the Beit El settlement, supported—he was the board of the Friends of the Israeli Defense Forces, so to speak. He was always intricately connected ideologically to the most extreme right-wing components of Israeli society, particularly the settlers, who are outside the law, war criminals.

But he has also had economic ties with Israel, and he has had some Israeli banks bail him out when he was in economic trouble. That's another problem.

And third, his lack of experience and knowledge.

Fourth, the whole context, the whole setting of people like Kushner, like Friedman, even like Jason Greenblatt, and so on, who have ideological commitments and who are entrusted, under Kusher, with the task of achieving peace. I mean, this is incredible. It's like putting the thief in charge of the treasure or whatever. So, in a sense, while they are buying more time, procrastinating, going back and forth, pretending that they are working on peace, they've been buying Israel not only more time, but favor. And with the White House now, you have settlers in the White House. We used to say we had settlers in the West Bank and Jerusalem. Now they are in the White House, and they have succeeded in taking over American policy.

Before, yes, the U.S.—and I said this before, Amy—the U.S.—you could never accuse the U.S. administration of being even-handed. But now it's complicit. That's the difference, that it has become part of the crime, rather than at least trying to maintain a semblance that it's outside this or that it can maintain a distance. It cannot. And that's why it has destroyed its standing and chances for peace.

But what's alarming now—and I agree there's a silver lining that things are out in the open in a very crude way and a very ignorant way and irresponsible way, which is no source of comfort, because the U.S. cannot contain its actions. We used to say, "Well, the poor Americans, look what they got." But now it's the poor world, because any decision taken in Washington has repercussions all over the world. I mean, they're capable of destabilizing the whole region. They're capable of weighing in in favor of impunity and lawlessness and violating international law and U.N. resolutions. They're capable of becoming partners in crime. And they're capable of doing all that, and still, in a very super—talking about peace, as though they are doing this for the sake of peace.

So, it's not just a question of individuals. It's a question of combination of factors, of special interests, of economic interests, of ideological commitments, and, of course, of lack of experience and foresight when it comes to the necessity, when it comes to the need to understand not just the intricacy, but the components of the situation. I don't call it a conflict. This is a situation where you have occupier and occupied, where you have one military force enslaving a whole nation and holding it captive and stealing its land and resources—and getting away with it, and getting support and cover from the U.S. to pursue this, and buying more time. So I don't think at any point was there any hope or chance that the Trump administration or the U.S. would be an even-handed peace broker or would try to oversee a just solution. So, now that this has become clear to everybody, something we've been talking about for years—I started in '91 talking about this, and I was in charge of negotiating with the Americans.

But the problem now is that we have to minimize the damage that they are doing. And at the same time, we have to mobilize the Arabs, the Europeans, the rest of the world, international organizations and so on. And we have to put our own house in order. I don't want to transform this discussion into, you know, sort of internal mea culpas and so on. Yes, there are problems and issues that are domestic, but now we are facing serious problems, and we do have to, in a sense, band together. We have to try to face this external challenge in a way that is unified, responsible, with a cohesive and bold strategy, because our first responsibility is to maintain people's ability to stay on the land, to maintain people's ability to resist and to withstand such an onslaught of several factors, several forms of aggression, some of them military by the Israeli army, some of them economic, some of them in terms of siege, others in terms of political and legal negation and so on. All these different forms of assaults on Palestinian reality and rights require that we face them with a unified front, with a clear and bold strategy, and try to maximize all those areas and sources of strength that we could use in order to protect our cause and our land and our people.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Dr. Ashrawi, could you say a little about what you expect the response, both in Israel and Palestine, to be? Reportedly, in Israel, not just people in Netanyahu's administration, but also more liberal politicians, have welcomed this move by Trump. And you, yourself, have said that by making this move—

HANAN ASHRAWI: Yes.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: —Trump has emboldened terrorists and more extreme elements within Palestine, as well as the most aggressive elements of the Israeli Netanyahu administration. So what kind of response do you expect?

HANAN ASHRAWI: I think it certainly has emboldened the more extreme ideological hardline elements in Israel. It has shown that might makes right, that you can violate the law, that you can be aggressive and hostile, and you can act with criminality, and you will be rewarded. Not only will you get away with it, now you will be openly rewarded, yes. And this has helped shift all the discourse in Israel to the right. The whole terrain has gone to the right and to the extreme right and so on. The peace camp is literally nonexistent now. And the Labor Party, which used to be called the Labor Party, they call themselves the Zionist Camp. Even the transformation of the language has—is very indicative. They have supported this move, and they see it as something that should have been done and that is normal and that helps, you know, the Jewish state. So, nobody is saying that they are non-Zionist.

But at the same time, they should have more sense to understand the danger inherent in such a move, including danger to Israel itself. It's not my responsibility to protect Israel from its extremists and from the fumbling and mumbling of the American administration. But it is also my job to see—to understand whether there are saner voices within Israel, within the U.S., who will stand up to these voices of extremism and violence and so on.

Within Palestine, I don't think that we have, you know, terrorism and so on. I don't like to use that label. But I think, globally, that there are forces, there are irresponsible sources, that would like to exploit the Palestinian question, that—who are in search of an excuse—people like ISIS, for example, who would like to grab on, hold on to something as a justification for their acts of terror. And that's why I said the Palestinian cause must not be up for grabs, number one, by any nut who wants to use it.

And two, I think that it should show, in many ways, that if you adopt the language of peace, the language of legality, the language of humanity, the language of morality, the language that says, "We can negotiate, despite everything else, a just peace," then you have nothing to gain, but everything to lose, that you will be defeated by other voices. And I think this is the fatal flaw in this. So, in Palestine, you're seeing that the PLO, that has funded—that, by the way, the Palestinian Authority does not take political decisions. It's an administration that works on the ground to deliver services. But the PLO, that since '91 has committed itself—or since '88, to a negotiated settlement, and has staked, actually, its own career on the peace process as—or on a negotiated settlement as a means of resolving the conflict, has been shown to be unable to deliver. And this is why it has been weakened. And that's why it strengthens the opposition, people who say, "Well, they don't listen to the voice of peace or reason, therefore they will listen only to the voice of violence and ideology," because these are the weapons used by Israel, and now by the U.S., when it comes to Palestine.

And that's why I see a new configuration. I think that this is a deal changer, anyway—deal breaker, anyway, and a game changer. I think you are seeing more and more hardline positions, more and more polarization. The extreme right has become more emboldened in Israel, and it feels justified. The settlers have taken over the agenda. And they have neutralized and excluded, in many ways, any voices for peace. That's why it's important, when you talk about Jewish Voice for Peace and other American Jewish organizations, that they speak out, that they not be intimidated, because they are not living in the system that is becoming more and more fascist in Israel—

AMY GOODMAN: I want to ask—

HANAN ASHRAWI: —even though they have problems in the U.S., as well.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to ask—

HANAN ASHRAWI: And that's why in Palestine we also need an internal dialogue in order to come up with a new strategy.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to ask Budour Hassan, who is standing right now in East Jerusalem: What are the plans? The announcement of three days of rage tomorrow, the Friday day of prayer, what the plans are there? President Trump talking about hiring the architects and the contractors to begin the process of building the embassy in Jerusalem. What's going to happen over these next few days, that you know of, Budour?

BUDOUR HASSAN: I'll tell you something. In July, when Israel introduced metal detectors outside Al-Aqsa Mosque, people, without waiting for leaders, without waiting for anyone—neither religious nor political leaders, it was young women and men, religious, secular, Muslim, Christian, atheist, some people who never prayed in their lives before—took to the streets and camped outside Al-Aqsa Mosque. And after two weeks of popular rebellion, that was leaderless and that was grassroots, they managed to topple the metal detectors, and they managed to, probably for the first time, defeat an Israeli plan in Jerusalem. And actually, it was them who imposed their decision on the Israeli administration.

And I believe that people in Palestine say, of course, the days of rage are important, and we expect that tomorrow there will be protests, but we also know that this is a long struggle. I mean, people will—some people will probably forget, but people in Jerusalem have been suffering from colonization and from repression, especially extreme repression for the last two years. And this is why they are perfectly aware that this is—this battle is not two days or three days or a few demonstrations here and there. It is a battle for Palestinians in Jerusalem, especially with mass residency revocations by Israel, with mass arrests, as well, home demolitions and demographic engineering that Israel tries to operate in occupied Jerusalem. People are aware that this is a very long battle that is going to need them to stand together and that is going to need them to resist Israel's attempts to Judaize and expand its control over Jerusalem.

So, there are—I mean, I am sure that there will be protests today and tomorrow. In Damascus Gate, for example, there has been—there have been protests, and there have been confrontations in Ramallah, as well. And tomorrow, because it's Friday and because it's usually a very iconic day, after prayers, people, young women and men, will protest. But I think it's a very long battle for Palestinians. And a friend said that it's not in the White House where the identity, the Palestinian identity, of Jerusalem is denied; it's in the streets of Jerusalem that people will continue to reinforce and stress the Palestinian identity of this city.

AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Hanan Ashrawi, we have 20 seconds. Do you agree with Saeb Erekat that the two-state solution is dead?

HANAN ASHRAWI: It has been, for some time now. But it was a very convenient myth, that kept the image, the facade, of a process ongoing, and that was used constantly to pacify those who felt that, you know, they've done their national duty, like the Europeans and others, by saying, "We are committed to the two-state solution," but standing aside and allowing Israel to destroy it single-handedly. So I think, yes, this is—it's final now, but the issue is what will take its place. I do not like to see any vacuum, in terms of political vacuums or even vacuums in terms of struggle and internal reform and so on. We need, as I said, a new national dialogue. And we need to reform our institutions and our strategies in order to face the tremendous challenges we are seeing materializing right now before our eyes.

AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Hanan Ashrawi, we want to thank you very much for being with us, Palestinian politician, speaking to us from the occupied West Bank in Ramallah; Budour Hassan, Palestinian writer, speaking to us from East Jerusalem; and Rebecca Vilkomerson, executive director of Jewish Voice for Peace, here in New York.

This is Democracy Now! When we come back, Time magazine has named its 2017 Person of the Year: "The Silence Breakers," the women who have spoken out against sexual harassment and assault. Stay with us.

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