Monday, October 25, 2010

The Wikileaks Story and Attacks on Democracy in Israel

Two items on Democracy.  One from the Jewish voice for peace JVP.org and the other is a purpose statement from Wikileaks, the other force for a democratic world"






Association for Civil Rights in Israel on democracy’s heart attack (Long)

From the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, reprinted by permission.
Ed’s note: This is long, but close enough to our mission to warrant reprinting in full. Here you have the definite guide to anti-democracy bills in the Israeli Knesset, some that will be familiar to readers of this blog, some that even close followers of Israeli democracy will be unaware of. Did you know that the Israeli Parliament (Knesset) might consider banning face veils? Or that there was a bill to restrict the Israeli cinema? Or that Israel’s embattled political opposition faced further restrictions in one bill that passed its first reading?  None of these bills have passed as of yet. But they offer a window into what the next outrage might be and clearly illustrate the steep downward trendlines of Israeli democracy. No doubt not all of these bills will become law, but each will do their part to send a message to Israel’s political and national minorities and oppressed groups about where things are headed. And exactly none of them will be mentioned next time an official Israeli film festival comes to town, or the next time an Israeli or American leader goes on about our shared democratic heritage.

Harming Democracy in the Heart of Democracy

by Attorney Debbie Gild-Hayo
October 2010
For links to the texts of all Knesset bills and document cited, please view the complete PDF version of this document.
Background
Over the past two years, we have been increasingly troubled by expanding tendencies to harm Israel’s democracy. These trends are extensively surveyed in the State of the Democracy Report – published by The Association for Civil Rights in Israel (ACRI) in intermittent chapters. The two chapters that have been published so far deal with education system, and with the status of the Arab minority in Israel. The three future chapters will address the Knesset and the judicial system, free media, and freedom of protest and political activity.
A source of great concern is the fact that one of the key rings in which the Israeli democracy is threatened is the parliament itself – the very heart of democracy. Ahead of the upcoming opening of the Knesset’s Winter Session, we have drafted this brief review. It surveys the main aspects of anti-democratic trends in the Knesset, focusing on anti-democratic legislation, which includes bills that harm basic democratic rights – mainly the freedom of expression and political protest, and equality before the law; verbal and even physical abuse of members of the Knesset minority factions at this time;[1] attempts to delegitimize and infringe on the legitimate and much-needed operations of human-rights and social-change organizations;[2] and attempts to restrict the freedom of Israel’s academy. The above are most troubling signs, attesting to the deterioration of Israel’s democratic regime.
The attacks against Israel’s democracy are mainly characterized by attempts to silence social or political minorities’ views or public criticism; attempts to delegitimize political rivals, human-rights organizations, and minorities; attempts to restrict parties with positions or activities that do not coincide with the political majority’s desired direction; and by presenting minorities in the Israeli society as enemies of the State, generalizing in an attempt to infringe on their civil and political rights.
As a result, the basic principles of the Israeli democratic system are harmed; there is ongoing infringement on issues such as the freedom of expression, and human dignity and equality; on the possibility of upholding the pluralism of views and thoughts; on the freedom to congregate and protest; and on the legitimacy of certain views and stands. We are witnessing a reality of increasing tyranny against social, political, and national minorities, which harms their very rights.
It should be noted that these events have been taking place against the backdrop of a social and political reality which is always very loaded and often very harsh. Over the past 2 years, for example, we witnessed the continuation of the occupation and all that it entails: fire on Israel’s southern area, the military operation in Gaza, the flotilla affair, terror attacks, and more. We believe, however, that raising the banner of “A Self-Defending Democracy” is a cynical attempt to infringe on a democratic right of some minority (ethnic, social, or political) and is neither legitimate nor just. We believe that the State of Israel and its democracy must be defended, albeit proportionally and appropriately, and that basic rights may be denied or restricted only in the most extreme cases – as the Israeli law currently stipulates. It is inappropriate to legitimize the denial of minority rights as a matter of routine.
These anti-democratic moves employ various means, most troubling of which is the use of allegedly legitimate parliamentary tools, mainly through legislation. In recent years, we witnessed harsh and unprecedented remarks by senior politicians against political and human rights organizations, as well as various minorities, coupled by a variety of restrictive moves against them. At the same time, attempts were made to promote legislative initiatives and bills that clearly impair on the Israeli democracy and the rights, positions, and civil status of parties that did not belong to the political majority at the time.
It should be remembered that remarks and/or moves by senior members of the Israeli political establishment, particularly members of the Knesset, which has been a symbol of Israel’s democracy and its main upholder, have far-reaching implications on the Israeli public stands and attitudes toward democracy, human rights, and political, social, and ethnic minority groups. Surveys that the media carried over the past two years indicate that the Israeli public, mainly Israeli youths, support undemocratic and racist views.
Ahead of the Knesset’s October 2010 Winter Session
The 18th Knesset’s Winter Session 2010-11 will commence on October 10th. Anticipating it, we wish to warn against the troubling trend of infringement against democracy in Israel as expressed through the persistent promotion of anti-democratic bills, decisionmaking process, and conduct by Members of Knesset (MK). The Knesset plenum and committees have recently served as platforms for offensive and anti-democratic discourse.
In July 2010, at the close of the last Knesset Summer Session, The Association for Civil Rights in Israel (ACRI) sent a letter to the prime minister and the Knesset speaker in which we warned about the troubling trend of infringement on democracy, pointing at the important role the Knesset plays in defending democracy, and calling on them to take steps to end that trend.[3]
In the letter, we presented a list of bills promoted in the Knesset to demonstrate this troubling trend. At this time, ahead of the opening of the Winter Session, we wish to offer an update on these bills, some of which were not promoted while others were.
First, we wish to address bills that were listed in the aforementioned letter, and new bills that were submitted since and were not promoted because the Ministerial Legislation Committee rejected them, probably due to lack of agreement among its members (additionally, we list a bill that was passed and thus, naturally, will not be discussed in the upcoming Knesset session).
1. Bill on MK’s Pledge of Allegiance (David Rotem)
According to this bill, all MKs are required to pledge allegiance to the State of Israel as Jewish a democratic state, to its laws, symbols, and national anthem. The bill intends to delegitimize and even practically prevent minority groups from partaking in the Israeli democratic process.
Status: Not promoted due to lack of coalition agreement.
2. Bill Denying the High Court’s Right to Rule on Nationalization (Rotem and another 44 MKs)
This bill, which intends to bypass the High Court of Justice (HCJ), was devised in the wake of HCJ discussions of the Nationalization Act, though the court has not yet ruled against it, but probably may do so in the future.
Status: Not promoted due to lack of coalition agreement.
3. Bill for the Establishment of a Constitution Court (David Rotem)
This bill wishes to restrict the Supreme Court. In a democracy, the separation of powers means that the court must defend the rule of the law and prevent harm to human rights in general and to constitutional rights in particular through legislation, among other things. The proposed bill, which aims at denying the HCJ powers through a series of acts, severely harms the principle of the separation of powers, the protection of human rights, and the democratic system.
Status: Not promoted
4. A series of government-initiated bills that intend to restrict the Knesset’s opposition factions
Seven MKs may split from a Knesset faction to establish a new faction – not one-third of the original faction members; increasing the quorum needed for budget-related bills to 55 MKs; if after a vote of no-confidence is endorsed by a Knesset majority, the new candidate for prime minister should fail to form a coalition-based government, the ousted government should regain its seat; a cabinet member who quits the Knesset shall be replaced by another on his faction list.
Status: passed the first reading; it seems there is no intention to promote further it at this time.
5. Bill or Pardoning Disengagement Offenders (Rivlin et al)
Though legislation that eases punitive measures against persons who exercised their right to political protest is welcome in principle, this particular bill is problematic because it makes a distinction between political and ideological activists of various groups. Instead of promoting a general principles of “going easy” on protesters, this bill was promoted by the current political majority in favor of their electorate alone .[4]
Status: the Knesset passed the bill; the HCJ is currently reading a petition against its inequality.
6. The Cinema bill
According to this bill, the entire crew of a film that seeks public funding will have to pledge allegiance to the State of Israel as Jewish a democratic state, its laws, symbols, etc. This bill infringes on the freedom of expression, protest, and artistic and creative expression – referring only to a specific political, national, and social group.
Status: not promoted.
7. Bill on Denying an MK’s Parliamentary Status (Dani Danon)
According to this bill, the parliamentary status of an MK may be revoked by a majority of 80 MKs if he expressed his opposition Israel’s existence as a Jewish and democratic state, incited to racism, or supported an armed struggle against the State of Israel.
Status: Not approved by the government.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
It may be expected, however, that some of the bills that the Knesset started promoting in the previous session will be actively promoted further in the upcoming session. Following is a list of bills that we believe carry high probability of promotion and even ratification, with such or other wording, and turn into state laws in the coming Winter Session.
1. The Nakba Bill (Alex Miller)
According to this bill, persons marking Nakba Day as a day of mourning for the establishment of the State of Israel will be sentenced to prison. The government endorsed the bill but, in the wake of public protests, its wording was changed to state that persons marking Nakba Day shall be denied public funds. Even this “minimized” version still legally impairs on the freedom of expression, as the political majority bans a certain political view.
Status: The bill passed the first reading and will be discussed by the Knesset Constitution, Law, and Justice Committee ahead of its second and third reading.
2. Anti-Incitement Bill (Zvulun Orlev)
An amendment of the existing act, according to which persons publishing a call that denies the existence of the State of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state shall be arrested. This is an extension of the penal code, which intends to incriminate a political view that another political group does not accept.
Status: Passed the preliminary reading and may be discussed by the Knesset Constitution, Law, and Justice Committee ahead of its first reading.
3. Nationalization, Pledge of Allegiance (David Rotem)
According to this bill, all Israeli citizens will have to pledge allegiance to the State of Israel as Jewish a democratic state, and do a term of military or national service.
Status: The government did not endorse this bill; a ministerial committee rejected it in May 2010, but another attempt was made in July to get the cabinet to endorse it and failed. Additional attempts to promote this bill may be expected.
4. Bill on Admission Committees of Communal Settlements (David Rotem, Israel Hason, Shay Hermesh)
According to this bill, admission committees may turn down candidates for membership with a communal settlement if they “fail to meet the fundamental views of the settlement,” its social fabric, and so on. The bill primarily intends to deny ethnic minorities’ access to Jewish settlements, offering the possibility to reject anyone who does not concur with the settlement committee’s positions, religion, political views, and so on. It should be noted that ACRI filed petition against this bill, which is pending with the HCJ. [5]
Status: The bill passed the first reading and will be discussed by the Knesset Constitution, Law, and Justice Committee ahead of its second and third reading.
5. Bill on Funds from Foreign Political Entities (Elkin et al)
According to the (original version) of this bill, any person or group financed by a foreign nation must register with the party registrar and immediately report each contribution, mark every document in this spirit, and state at the opening of any remark they make that they are funded by a foreign state. The bill names strict penalties too. In practice, the bill intends to delegitimize and impair on the activities of organizations that receive funds from, among other sources, foreign states. Though the Israeli law already makes reporting such donations imperative, this bill wishes to expand the existing law and force certain civil organizations to mark their activities as subversive and illegitimate. Furthermore, the bill practically refers to the activities of specific civil groups, focusing on human rights organizations, implicitly incriminating them when compared with other bodies or individuals funded by foreign non-state entities.[6] It should be noted that we sent a letter to the foreign minister recently warning against the state’s illegitimate intervention in fundraising by Israel’s civil organizations.[7]
Status: An amended version of the bill was endorsed by the Knesset Constitution, Law, and Justice Committee; and will soon be presented for a first reading and then discussed by the committee ahead of its second and third reading.
6. Bill on Infiltration (Government)
The bill stipulates, among other things, that infiltrators based on their country of origin, and persons who assist them (!) may be sentenced to 5 to 7 years in prison. This bill follows the trend of delegitimizing human rights and aid organizations and individuals who help refugees and labor immigrants.
Status: The government pulled back the bill, but key points from it will be introduced through a new bill which, to the best of our knowledge, is currently drafted by the Justice Ministry.[8]
7. Bill Against Boycott (Elkin et al)
According to this bill, persons who initiate, promote, or publish material that might serve as grounds for imposing a boycott against Israel are committing a crime and a civil wrong, and may be ordered to compensate parties economically affected by that boycott, including fixed reparations to the tune of 30,000 shekels, freeing the plaintiffs from the need to prove damages. If the felon is a foreign citizen, he may be banned from entering or doing business with Israel; and if it is a foreign state, Israel may not repay the debts it owes that state, and use the money to compensate offended parties; that state may additionally be banned from conducting business affairs in Israel. And if that is not enough, the above shall apply one year retroactively.
This too is a bill that discriminates against certain political groups in Israel, and is introduced by the political majority in an attempt to neutralize the political opposition it is facing. Primarily, the bill intends to reject legitimate boycotts of products of settlements, and thus severely impairs on a legitimate, legal, and nonviolent protest tool that is internationally accepted (including by Israel), while impairing on the Israeli citizens’ freedom of expression, protest, and congregation.[9]
Status: The bill passed a preliminary reading and the Knesset Constitution, Law, and Justice Committee will discuss it ahead of its first reading. It should be noted that a ministerial committee rejected the chapters pertaining to foreign citizens and states, probably out of consideration for Israel’s foreign relations, and spiked the retroactive clause.
8. Bill on Revoking the Citizenship of Persons Convicted of Terrorism or Espionage (David Rotem)
This bill infringes on the basic rights of Israel’s citizens because when a citizenship (which in itself is a basic right) is denied, a series of basic rights that follow from it are denied too. Furthermore, the Israeli Penal Code already specifies ways of dealing with persons convicted of terrorism or espionage.[10]
Status: The bill was discussed by the Knesset Interior Committee, which will continue discussing it ahead of its first reading.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
On top of these, two additional bills submitted over the past 2 months may be promoted in the coming session:
1. An Associations Bill (ban on filing suits abroad against Israeli politicians or army officers), according to which an association that deals with suits against senior Israeli officials abroad may not be established, or will be shut down.
2. Bill banning wearing veils in public, according to which, it would be illegal to cover one’s face in any public location, under penalty of imprisonment.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
We further wish to stress that there is a tough and intolerant approach toward minority members and stands in the Knesset, as expressed in plenum and committees’ discussions. This trend was particularly visible after the flotilla affair, and included verbal and even physical abuse against MK Zuabi, as well as other Arab MKs, during and after the plenum discussion, when the Knesset discussed the revocation of her parliamentary rights. It should be noted that a petition was filed with the HCJ against that revocation, under the pretext that it was an undemocratic act.
The prevailing atmosphere is not expected to change soon, certainly not during the current loaded period of talks with the Palestinians, terror attacks, rocket firing from Gaza, and the debate over freezing or not freezing construction works in the territories.
Answering our letter, dated July 2010, the Knesset speaker wrote that he too is uncomfortable with some of the bills mentioned in our letter, saying that he feel that “the State of Israel as the state of the Jewish nation, and as a Jewish and democratic state, is strong enough and needs no ‘fortifications’ such as those proposed by the bills you mentioned in your letter. I believe that, often unintentionally, they actually weaken and not bolster it.”[11]
Additional Issues on the Knesset Agenda Ahead of the October 2010 Session
While dealing with anti-democratic laws, we constantly work against legislation that impairs on human rights in all aspects of life.
At this time, we deem it particularly important to address two topical and central issues that carry human-rights implications that the Knesset will discuss in the upcoming session:
The Planning and Housing Reform – A new planning and construction law is about to be introduced that has far-reaching implications that might impact on all aspects of the Israeli residents’ lives. We believe that the currently proposed reform might impair on the public’s participation in related forums and on the protection of public interests. Cooperating with other organizations, we work to amend and correct the suggested reform so as to introduce tools that would ensure appropriate representation, the implementation of the public’s participation, and that various social interests are considered.
The State Budget and the Arrangements Act – Israel’s biannual budget for 2011-12 will be discussed and sealed in the coming months. We feel that the suggested budget contains numerous resolutions and amendments that impair on human rights in a wide range of issues. On behalf of ACRI and in collaboration with additional organizations, we drafted several position papers on issues such as – impairing on the courts’ accessibility; impairing on the rights of the unemployed and seekers of state allowances; harming the laborers’ rights; infringing on the residential rights of inhabitants of public housing, and so on.
Below are a few additional issues (samples only) that we handle and which are expected to be raised in the upcoming Knesset session:
1. A long line of bills dealing with immigration and civil status is expected to be discussed as part of the Arrangements Act, government deliberations ahead of the forming act, the new anti-infiltration bill, and more.
2. An amendment we initiated, banning discrimination in public services that will not allow further selection at club entrances, will be discussed by the Knesset Economic Committee in preparation for a second and third reading.
3. An amendment of the National Health Act, adding a standing mechanism for updating the medications basket that will ratify continuity, which we initiated together with the Knesset Labor Committee, will be discussed soon, having passed the first reading in the previous Knesset.
4. A bill we initiated offering a program to replace the Wisconsin Program, which the Knesset Labor Committee will discuss.
Summary
Anti-democratic tendencies in the Knesset are gaining momentum and, regrettably, the Winter Session is expected to follow on the last session’s trends. We feel, however, that it is important to point out that not all the anti-democratic bills were promoted, and that some of those that were promoted have undergone significant changes that minimized the damage they might cause. The last Knesset session stood out in laying the foundations for anti-democratic legislation, but the vast majority of the legislation processes concerning the aforementioned bills is not yet over. In this respect, the coming session will be a trying time. If the said bills should ripen and turn into state laws, their potential damage to democracy would be realized; but should the Knesset sober up and restrain itself, protecting our democracy against the tyranny of the majority, the Israeli parliament will pass the important test of the democracy’s durability.
Even if the anti-democratic bills – some, or even all, of them – do not eventually become laws – even then, Israeli democracy will have already sustained a serious blow. For the issue has yet another, public and educational, lasting aspect. The winds blowing from the Knesset, through these legislative efforts, are already affecting the public, helping to create a public perception of Israeli Arabs as always suspect, of human rights activists and organizations as enemies of the State, and of basic democratic norms as subject to the majority’s whims. Thus, the activities of many MKs, often supported by leading cabinet members, effectively provide the public with ongoing classes in anti-democracy.
In conclusion, we would like to cite remarks that the Knesset speaker made on 2 August 2010, addressing Foreign Ministry cadets, as published in Haaretz: “Certain MKs address the people’s sentiments, and in doing so create an international image of Israel as an Apartheid state…. [Such MKs] create a wrongful discourse between Jews and Arabs in the Knesset that reflects on the existing conflict in the Israeli society.”[12]
We hope that in the upcoming session, the MKs will sober up and change the parliament’s direction, and that the trends of tyranny of the majority will be replaced by new approaches that will restore essential democratic values and reintroduce the need to protect them into the heart of our democracy. Either way – whether the Knesset mends its ways or not – ACRI will keep guarding democratic values, monitoring the Knesset’s legislative processes, and doing everything it can to help promoting the values of equality, social justice, and human rights.

[1] See our letter to the Knesset speaker, dated 6 June 2010, following the flotilla events, and his reply dated 10 June 2010.
[2] See our letter to the President, the prime minister, and the Knesset speaker, dated 31 January 2010, concerning the delegitimization of human rights organizations.
[3] See our letter dated 21 July 2010
[4] See an ACRI position paper on the issue dated 25 June 2010.
[5] See an ACRI position paper on the issue dated 21 December 2009.
[6] See an ACRI position paper on the issue dated 9 August 2010.
[7] See an ACRI letter to the foreign minister, dated 1 September 2010.
[8] See an ACRI position paper by the Refugees’ Rights Forum on the issue dated 4 June 2008.
[9] See a position paper on the issue dated 7 September 2010.
[10] See an ACRI position paper on the issue dated 4 July 2010.
[11] See the Knesset Speaker’s letter dated 3 August 2010.
[12] http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/spages/1182847.html. Read the English translation of the article here.


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Wikileaks Is Back!

EXCLUSIVE: WikiLeaks Prepares Largest Intel Leak in US History with Release of 400,000 Iraq War Docs

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The whistleblowing group WikiLeaks is preparing to release up to 400,000 US intelligence reports on the Iraq War. The disclosure would comprise the biggest leak in US history, far more than the 91,000 Afghanistan war logs WikiLeaks released this summer. We speak to the nation’s most famous whistleblower, Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the secret history of the Vietnam War in 1971, just before he heads to London to participate in the WikiLeak press conference. [includes rush transcript]
Filed under Wikileaks, Iraq
Guest:
Daniel Ellsberg, Pentagon Papers whistleblower.

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JUAN GONZALEZ: The whistleblowing group WikiLeaks plans to release the largest cache of classified US documents in history tomorrow. The group is expected to post up to 400,000 intelligence reports on the Iraq war. WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is holding a press conference in London on Saturday morning to make the announcement.
The disclosure of the documents would comprise the biggest leak in US history, far more than the 91,000 Afghanistan war logs WikiLeaks released this summer.
The US government is racing to prepare for the fallout. A team of more than a hundred analysts from the Defense Intelligence Agency have been combing through classified Iraq documents they think will be released.
AMY GOODMAN: WikiLeaks sparked condemnation from the US government when it released the 91,000 Afghan war logs in July. The White House and the Pentagon accused the website of irresponsibility. They claimed they were putting people’s lives in danger. But the Associated Press recently obtained a Pentagon letter reporting that no US intelligence sources or practices were compromised by the leak.
Nevertheless, WikiLeaks says it’s been targeted by the US government. In the aftermath of the Afghan war logs leak, the US reportedly asked Britain, Germany, Australia and other Western governments to open criminal investigations into Julian Assange and severely restrict his international travel. Most recently, WikiLeaks accused the US of targeting it with financial warfare. Last week, Julian Assange said the company responsible for collecting the WikiLeaks’ donations terminated its account after the US and Australia placed the group on blacklists. Meanwhile, Army intelligence analyst Bradley Manning has been in prison since May, when he was arrested on charges of leaking a video of a US military helicopter killing a group of innocent Iraqis in Baghdad.
For more, we’re joined here in our New York studio by Daniel Ellsberg, perhaps the country’s most famous whistleblower. He leaked the secret history of the Vietnam War in 1971. He’s flying to London tonight. He’ll take part in the WikiLeaks news conference on Saturday.
Dan Ellsberg, welcome to Democracy Now! Can you talk about this 400,000 pages or documents that are expected to be released?
DANIEL ELLSBERG: Four hundred thousand documents, allegedly. It is, of course, a leak on a scale that I couldn’t have done forty years ago without scanners and digital capability. I used the most advanced technology at that time, Xerox, and I couldn’t have done what I did ten years before that.
AMY GOODMAN: You xeroxed 7,000 pages?
DANIEL ELLSBERG: Yes. It took a long time, one page at a time. So I’m quite jealous of the current capabilities. But I’m glad to express my support of what WikiLeaks is doing and its sources, in particular. Whoever gave this information to WikiLeaks obviously understood that they were at risk of being where Bradley Manning is now: accused, in prison. We don’t know—I don’t know who the source was. And if Bradley Manning is shown by Army, beyond a reasonable doubt, to have been the source, he’ll have my admiration and thanks for doing that. I’ve faced that kind of risk myself forty years ago, and it always seemed worthwhile to me to be willing to risk one’s life in prison, even, to help shorten a war, like Afghanistan or Iraq. That’s what we were suffering then in Vietnam. And it was really a secrecy—it’s the secrecy, the wrongful secrecy, of information like this that got us into Vietnam and Afghanistan and Iraq, or has kept the war going in Afghanistan. So if there’s any chance of shortening that, it’s certainly worth a person’s life.
JUAN GONZALEZ: And the extent of damage control that the military is apparently—the mode that it’s in, in preparation for the release of these documents, does it surprise you at all?
DANIEL ELLSBERG: Well, they know what—they think they know what’s coming out. They’re crying alarm over this, as they always do in the case of every case of a leak. Certainly they did with the Pentagon Papers. In fact, in that case, they said that the damage to national security was so great that they had to stop the presses for the first time in our history, that the Supreme Court ruled otherwise, having heard testimony on that. And the seventeen—in fact, nineteen newspapers, altogether, decided otherwise and did print the papers, in what amounted to civil disobedience against the warnings of the attorney general. In no case was there any harm discovered in that case. And as for the releases in July, with all the warnings we heard passed on by the media, quite uncritically, no damage has been reported. So I think that one should take their warnings now with a lot of salt.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, at a Pentagon news conference in August, Defense Secretary Robert Gates denounced the leaking of the Afghan war logs.
DEFENSE SECRETARY ROBERT GATES: The battlefield consequences of the release of these documents are potentially severe and dangerous for our troops, our allies and Afghan partners, and may well damage our relationships and reputation in that key part of the world. Intelligence sources and methods, as well as military tactics, techniques and procedures, will become known to our adversaries. This department is conducting a thorough, aggressive investigation to determine how this leak occurred, to identify the person or persons responsible, and to assess the content of the information compromised.
AMY GOODMAN: Speaking at the same news conference, Admiral Mike Mullen, the chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, accused WikiLeaks of having blood on its hands.
ADM. MIKE MULLEN: Mr. Assange can say whatever he likes about the greater good he thinks he and his source are doing, but the truth is, they might already have on their hands the blood of some young soldier or that of an Afghan family. Disagree with the war all you want, take issue with the policy, challenge me or our ground commanders on the decisions we make to accomplish the mission we’ve been given, but don’t put those who willingly go into harm’s way even further in harm’s way just to satisfy your need to make a point.
AMY GOODMAN: And yet, the Associated Press obtained this Pentagon letter reporting no US intelligence sources or practices were compromised by the leaks. Dan Ellsberg?
DANIEL ELLSBERG: You know, for all that the admiral, Mullen, or for that matter Presidents Bush or Barack Obama, tell us of the good that they hoped to accomplish, we haven’t seen any evidence of that, I would say. And in terms of blood on their hands, I’m sorry to say, a lot of actual blood has been spilled, as opposed to this hypothetical possible blood, of which none has been reported, from the WikiLeaks.
Actually, the demands they’re making of the press to stay away from this story, or even readers not to read it—and they’re talking about returning the material—seems absurd on its face. Returning released material, released into cyberspace, seems rather absurd. They’re obviously threatening prosecution, because they’re using the words of the charges that were first used against me, the Espionage Act, which was not intended as an Official Secrets Act, but it uses language like "returning the information," "d) and (e)." I was the first person to have the experience of having those charges made. In this case, there have some credibility of prosecution, because President Barack Obama has already brought as many prosecutions for leaks to the American public as all previous presidents put together. It’s a small number: it’s three. But since he didn’t have a really law intended to do that, no other president has brought one—more than one prosecution. He’s brought three. And clearly what he’s threatening here with the press, including you and even your readers, for not returning the information that they’re not authorized to receive, is a clear warning, I’d say, of prosecution, which means that I think this administration is moving toward really aggressively using the Espionage Act as an Official Secrets Act, in which case we’ll know even less than we do about the lies that prolong wars and get us into wrongful wars.
JUAN GONZALEZ: But what about that policy, given the fact that President Obama came into office talking about a more transparent and open government and appears to be going in the opposite direction?
DANIEL ELLSBERG: Well, that promise has gone the way of his promise to close Guantánamo and a number of other promises. In no way, in the general defense and homeland security area, is he less opaque, more transparent, than Bush. And as I say, he’s being even more aggressive in pursuing prosecution.
One other aspect of that is that—my understanding—is that the impression he’s giving that he’s ending the war in Iraq, or that it has ended even, the war described by these 400,000 documents, is, I think, a conscious lie. I think it’s as much of a lie as Lyndon Johnson’s, when I was working for him and he underestimated for the public the scale and the duration of the war we were getting into. I’ll predict, without having seen these documents—I will make a bet here, I’ll stick my neck out—that there’s no hint in those 400,000 documents, which go up into this year, that President Barack Obama intends to remove our bases from Iraq, next year or the year after or any time in his term. I’ll bet there isn’t even a contingency plan for turning over those bases to Iraqis. And that means that rather than doing what he’s promised, which is to get all American troops out by the end of next year, I think there will be tens of thousands there whenever he leaves office, whether it’s in 2013 or four years after that.
AMY GOODMAN: And we should say you were a high-level—you were a high-level Pentagon official working for the RAND Corporation.
DANIEL ELLSBERG: That’s right. I spent years keeping—I worked for the Pentagon and the State Department. I spent years keeping my mouth shut as presidents lied to us and kept these secrets. I shouldn’t have done that. And that’s why I admire someone even who’s accused, like Bradley Manning, if he is the source, or whoever the source was, of actually risking their own personal freedom in order to tell the truth. I think they’re being better citizens and showing their patriotism in a better way than when they keep their mouths shut.
AMY GOODMAN: Dan Ellsberg, can you go back to the language of 793, the law that goes after whistleblowers—
DANIEL ELLSBERG: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN:—and how it can go after journalists, as well?
DANIEL ELLSBERG: It actually can apply—the words are so broad, because they really were intended for espionage, for people who are secretly giving information to an enemy, so they weren’t designed to protect, let’s say, First Amendment or freedom of speech when it comes to giving information to the public. So they talk about wrongfully receiving or holding information that is not authorized for release or giving it to people who are not authorized to receive it. And the people who get it are subject to charge under that.
It often has been said that the AIPAC case, the case of the Israeli lobby here, people who were accused of receiving information, were for the first—who did not have clearances—who were being charged under this law. Barack Obama, by the way, dropped that case, which was brought under Bush. Actually, that was not the first case. In my case, my co-defendant, Anthony Russo, was in exactly the same position. He didn’t have a clearance at that time. He was just receiving the material. He held it; he didn’t return it. At least at that time they had paper he could have returned, in principle, as did the New York Times.
But the wording of the law could apply to readers of the New York Times, which I believe is coming out with this information. They’re not authorized to receive this classified information, even though they may very well have a need, as citizens, to have it. It’s being wrongfully withheld from them, but they’re not authorized to receive. Unless they return it, they are subject—now, that’s not going to happen. But the journalists, indeed, are being put on warning that they may be subject to this.
JUAN GONZALEZ: What about the issue of the government raising the specter of attempting to prosecute Julian Assange, when the reality is he is not doing this in the United States? He is releasing documents in another country. And—
DANIEL ELLSBERG: Well, they’re trying to get the other countries to prosecute him under their laws, which are, in many cases, of course, more stringent than ours. Even Britain, where I’ll be going tomorrow, has an Official Secrets Act, which we don’t. We had a revolution and a war of independence and a First Amendment, which they don’t. But if these prosecutions proceed and if they’re successful, if they’re carried—if they’re held up, if they’re supported by this Supreme Court, which might well not have been the case forty years ago, then we’ll have an Official Secrets Act, and the effect of—in effect.
And the effect of that will be that they won’t have to conduct investigations of leakers, after all, or who did it; they’ll just have to pull in the person whose byline is on that story, the journalist, and say, "Who committed the crime? We’re not after you. We’re just after the person who violated this law." And if the reporter doesn’t give the name up, they’ll go to jail, like Judith Miller for ninety days, before she did in fact cooperate. Some will go to jail, and many will not. And I think the sources, from then on, will have no basis, other than WikiLeaks, to—which protects their anonymity, to get this information out that we need. So I think WikiLeaks is actually becoming more indispensable even than it was in the past.
It occurred to me that if Bob Woodward, who really gives us a lot of information in his new book, based on classified documents that he was shown in the administration—I would urge him to put those documents into WikiLeaks anonymously. Put them on the line. Let us all read the documents and form our own opinion. Then we’d have something like the Pentagon Papers of Afghanistan, which these documents will not be. It remains, really, to come out, the higher-level documents. And I hope people who have access to those in the White House, in the Pentagon, but—in the CIA, in the State Department, will take advantage of WikiLeaks, as a matter of fact, and give us the information we need in order to end these wars.
AMY GOODMAN: Now, in the last release of documents, there were 91,000 documents, but—
DANIEL ELLSBERG: Of which they’ve withheld so far one out of five, 15,000, for damage control. WikiLeaks has not yet released those. They’re working over them to redact.
AMY GOODMAN: Which is the point I wanted to make, released around 75,000—
DANIEL ELLSBERG: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN:—that WikiLeaks is withholding documents, concerned about issues of—
DANIEL ELLSBERG: Yes. And moreover, they let the Pentagon know what they were releasing. They gave them the files in code to them and asked them actually to identify people that they hoped to be redacted from those. Now, the Pentagon refused, meaning they prefer to bring charges into—both in court and in the press, of—endanger, rather than actually to protect these people, showing the usual amount of concern they have over other humans.
AMY GOODMAN: Has the same been done with these 400,000 documents?
DANIEL ELLSBERG: Yes. That’s why they’re going over them now. They know what’s coming out. And they have every ability, if people are endangered—which actually is in question to this point. The fact that there’s been no damage up ’til now really strongly questions the claims that were made earlier and, as I say, passed on by most of the mainstream press, very uncritically, that there was danger. But if there was, it may well have been in those 15,000 which WikiLeaks is properly going over still.
JUAN GONZALEZ: So, what you’re saying is that WikiLeaks has let the Pentagon know precisely what it is about to release?
DANIEL ELLSBERG: To my understanding, they have. I’m not in the process. But I understand that they’ve said that they did make them aware of what it is and have invited them to cooperate in protecting those names. But as I say, the Pentagon, if there are such names, has preferred to make charges.
AMY GOODMAN: And are they releasing them with other papers, as they did last time—the New York Times, Der Spiegel and The Guardian?
DANIEL ELLSBERG: Yes, yes. And I must say, I give credit to the Times, as I understand it, and Der Spiegel and The Guardian, who are resisting, as did the Times forty years ago, the demand or the request that they desist and that they return and that they stop serving their function: to protect the public.
AMY GOODMAN: So they’re doing it again on this 400,000-document leak?
DANIEL ELLSBERG: They’re doing it again, and it’s much to their credit, and I appreciate it. I’ve waited forty years for a release on this scale. I think there should have been something on the scale of the Pentagon Papers every year. How often do we need this kind of thing? We haven’t seen it. So I’m very glad that someone is taking the risk and the initiative to inform us better now.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Well, I mean, it would seem to me—I think this is an important point to make. As a journalist who has many times not provided the subject of the articles I’m going to write a complete view of what I have, this is—it seems to me that WikiLeaks has gone to extraordinary lengths to allow the Pentagon to respond and to signal to it, look, if there’s anything in particular here that you think endangers an individual that—or an operation, let us know.
DANIEL ELLSBERG: They haven’t given a veto to the administration, as far as I’m concerned, of anything that they might raise an alarm about, but they have said, "Bring it to our attention, and we’ll responsibly look at that." And they are redacting names, yes.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we want to thank you for being with us, Dan Ellsberg. And I guess you could compliment the New York Times for something else, as well, because now they no longer say, after decades, "the man who claimed he gave us the Pentagon Papers," but they actually admit you did.
DANIEL ELLSBERG: Yes, they’ve actually acknowledged at last that I was the source. They’re very reluctant to tell their sources, but since I was the one who was prosecuted, I claim special relation to them on that.
AMY GOODMAN: Daniel Ellsberg was a high-level official in the Pentagon and was—is the country’s most famous whistleblower. He released the Pentagon Papers. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. Dan Ellsberg now heads to London. He’ll be at the WikiLeaks news conference that releases, well, what we believe is something like 400,000 documents on the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.
DANIEL ELLSBERG: Iraq, essentially. Iraq.
AMY GOODMAN: Iraq, in particular. Iraq war. This is Democracy Now! When we come back, another Dan. We’ll be joined by Lt. Dan Choi. We’ll be talking about the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy and have a debate over where Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell fits into the antiwar movement. Stay with us.

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Tuesday, October 19, 2010

How weird can they get?

The one thing that is attractive about Republican candidates is how funny they are.  In fact, I find it almost impossible to write or talk about them one at a time -- they all sort of blend together into one mass of hysteria. I'm going to try.  I'll put my whole mind to it (so long as it holds out).  The problem here is not a lack of material supplied by them, but in setting it up right.  Perhaps it will be easier just to let them stand as is.

Meghan McCain says that Catherine O'Donnell, running for Senator in Delaware, is a "Nut job".  Now, O'Donnell has at least said "I am not a witch," but we have no such assurance from Meghan.  The quote itself is so reminiscent of Richard Nixon's "I am not a crook," that it leaves one suspicious.  She has the same campaign advisors as did Sarah Palin, so we can not expect that much from her.  We do know, however, that O'Donnell will not masturbate in office as she has proclaimed that anyone who does so has lust in their heart.

Sister Sarah seems to desire the appellation of "Momma Grizzley."  I'd rather trust a Bear, but I'll leave her to Tina Fey as I can not distinguish between her and the SNL portrait.  Unfortunately, neither can she.

Sharon Angle put out a campaign ad that had some rather evil looking hispanic youths (they same ones the Republican from Louisiana, Vitters, had in his add proving we have a shortage of evil looking hispanics) that got her into trouble.  So, she addressed a crowd of Hispanics, saying "Some of you look Asian to me.  We are a melting pot.  I've been called the first Asian in the Legislature," or words to that effect.  Funny, she doesn't look Asian, whatever THAT means.  Besides, she thinks those people in the ad were Canadians because they were crossing the border.  The Canadian border with Nevada, not the Nevada border with Mexico (neither of which I can find on a map).

Females have no advantage when it comes to funny.  The son of Ron Paul, who calls himself Rand Paul, must have been named after Ann Rand (I know there is a "Y" in there somewhere) who was sort of a frustrated Social Darwinist, survival of the fittest and all that.  What he is proving is survival of the mediocre, who, admittedly, are the fittest so far as survival is concerned.  His opponent, a Democrat is pretty strange enough calling him "unchristian".  He is the one who certified himself as an optician or, as Mel Brooks said, "Put your hand on a rock, look up into the sky, and say 'I AM'" an optician!  Only way to do it.  Gotta have confidence in yourself.

In Alaska there is a very strange man called Miller, a Republican, kind of.  His position is that he will not answer any questions.  Anyone who does, is grabbed by his private security squad (called "Drop Zone", not Blackwater), put in handcuffs, and arrested.  They then called the local Alaskan police who tell them to knock it off and get serious.  Perhaps there is more, but I don't remember.  Sister Sarah endorsed him but doesn't like him anymore, I guess.

In Colorado, some guy named Buck has decided that homosexuality is like alcoholism -- partly birth, but completely choice.

Carl Paladino, New York Governor wanna be keeps threatening to slug reporters and debates Eliot Spitzer's ex-prostitutes, or so I gather.  She said the difference between her and the other candidates is that "I produce on time". 

In California, one woman who as CEO fired 30,000 workers says she can solve the unemployment problem there by going to the senate and another who ran ebay wants to run the state.

Now, the only one that seems to have made an interesting point is Rand Paul who, I have been told, wants Churches to pay property tax.  All of them, however, want to get rid of Social Security, one of the few social safety nets left after 30 years of systematic destruction.

One the other hand, look at France.  The conservative government decided to raise the retirement age to 62, that's right, 62, and they have riots, strikes, all the oil refineries have been shut down, tires burning in the street, students boycotting, workers boycotting, one mass revolt, etc.   

Our election is wonderfully choreographed to avoid any clear understanding of what the candidates actually stand for and the focus is kept on pure theater of the inane.  Enjoy your vote in two week's time.

Wednesday, October 13, 2010

Anti-Semitic is Circular, but an Argument?




Illustration:  Completely unrelated, from www.whatnowtoons.com, about the Tennessee nonsense.

Here is a letter to the PBS station in San Francisco.  It also gives a bit of perspective on how far away from reality our entire media is:


Our local and otherwise great public tv station which used to show a lot of Alan Watts back
in the 50's remember? KQED showed a ridiculous documentary excusing Israel for just about
anything it ever did wrong.

Here's what I wrote the president of KQED.


"Dear Mr. or Ms. President of KQED,

I was dismayed to find a program entitled "Anti-Semitism" aired tonight October 12th 2010 on KQED.

For years I have asked KQED and in particular Michael Krasny of "Forum" why John Pilger's documentaries are never
shown on your station, "Palestine is Still the Issue" for example.

Pilger is an Australian who exposes the unfairness of the occupation of Palestinian lands by israeli troops,
land that does not belong to Israel but which was overrun and conquered by the Israeli Army back in 1967 and is still kept
in poverty and isolation for some 43 years now, making it one of the longest run and largest outdoor prisons in the
world.

The program shown tonight on your station blames 'AntiSemitism' for hatred of Israel and Jews, implying that a long lasting evil tradition
is still going strong because...?  Because people hate Jews, a rather circular argument.

Large money contributors who support KQED may prefer this kind of distorted reasoning, but I cancelled my membership to your
station because of this refusal to see and report the truth.

What is the truth?  Israel has earned the enmity of many countries precisely because it has for decades now hung on to land gained
through war, and visited apartheid and other indignities on its Palestinian captives.  Why did the US veto over 80 UN resolutions against
Israel for this kind of behavior.  Is the UN anti-Semitic?  Why can not an organization concerned with world justice censure a government
that does such things to a trapped vulnerable powerless
people, in Gaza for instance, without being considered prejudiced?

Why not air a program about what REALLY goes on in the occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank instead of an excuse of such
actions based on a charge of "Anti-Semitism"?  Really, the whole idea of blaming centuries old hatred of Jews is preposterous and KQED is only betraying its bias and refusal
to face the plain facts involving Israel's Zionist extremists.

Shame on you KQED, and you too Michael Krasny, you are all guilty of kow-towing to special interests and money, trying to blame Anti-Semitism for the
anger much of the world feels towards Israel for its inhumane treatment of Palestinians.  Ask yourselves this, how many Gaza Flotilla survivors have been
interviewed on US tv?  I personally know such an individual, beaten and tortured in an Israel prison after being arrested on a boat in international waters.
Is saying that the State of Israel is guilty of beating and torturing people 'Anti-Semitic'?  Think about it, and let me know when you'll show a better documentary about
this vital subject, our relationship with Israel.

The unconditional support of Israel no matter how heinous it's crimes must end.  You, KQED, are simply prolonging the support of a rogue state,  I am
sorry to say.  Again, I am deeply disappointed in your failure of nerve.  A public station should represent facts fairly and not be swayed by contributors,
or else how do you explain yourselves on this matter?

Sincerely but regretfully yours,

Dr. Barry M. Wright
Gilroy CA"

Monday, October 11, 2010

John Le Carre -- The truth is always ugly

I wanted to share this as quickly as possible, so no intro.  I'll let it stand:



AMY GOODMAN: Today, we spend the hour with world-renowned British novelist John le Carré, the pen name of David Cornwell. Le Carré’s writing career spans half a century, during which he established himself as a master spy writer. His latest novel, his twenty-second, is out this week. It’s called Our Kind of Traitor.
David Cornwell worked in the British Secret Services from the late '50s to the early ’60s, at the height of the Cold War. His third novel, The Spy Who Came in from the Cold became an international bestseller. Le Carré's gritty depiction of the realities of the spy world contrasted sharply with the characters in Ian Fleming’s James Bond series.
This is a clip from the film adaptation of The Spy Who Came in from the Cold, starring Richard Burton as Alec Leamas, an alcoholic cynical British spy.
ALEC LEAMAS: [played by Richard Burton] What the hell do you think spies are? Model philosophers measuring everything they do against the word of God or Karl Marx? They’re not. They’re just a bunch of civil servants playing cowboys and Indians to brighten their rotten little lives. Do you think they sit like monks in a cell, balancing right against wrong? Yesterday I would have killed Mundt, because I thought him evil and an enemy. But not todaiy. Today he’s evil, and my friend. London needs him.
AMY GOODMAN: John le Carré continued writing, expanding with a series featuring his British spy master George Smiley, including the hit novel Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. As the Cold War ended, le Carré continued to write prolifically, shifting focus to the inequities of globalization, unchecked multinational corporate power, and the role national spy services play in protecting corporate interests.
Perhaps best known among his many post-Cold War novels is The Constant Gardener, depicting a pharmaceutical company’s exploitation of unwitting Kenyans for dangerous, sometimes fatal, drug tests. In this clip, from the film adaptation of The Constant Gardener, an activist, who is later killed by the pharmaceutical corporation, played by Rachel Weisz, confronts a government official, played by Ralph Fiennes, about war.
TESSA QUAYLE: [played by Rachel Weisz] Excuse me? Excuse me?
JUSTIN QUAYLE: [played by Ralph Fiennes] Yeah?
TESSA QUAYLE: Excuse me.
JUSTIN QUAYLE: Yeah, sorry.
TESSA QUAYLE: Sir, I’ve just got one question. I just wondered, whose map is Britain using when it completely ignores the United Nations and decides to invade Iraq? Or do you think it’s more diplomatic to bend the will of a superpower and politely take part in Vietnam the sequel?
JUSTIN QUAYLE: Well, I can’t speak for Sir Bernard.
TESSA QUAYLE: Oh, I thought that’s why you were here.
JUSTIN QUAYLE: I mean, diplomats have to go where they’re sent.
TESSA QUAYLE: So do Labradors.
JUSTIN QUAYLE: Ouch.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Ralph Fiennes and Rachel Weisz, as we turn now to our national broadcast exclusive hour with John le Carré about Constant Gardener, about his new novel Our Kind of Traitor, his antiwar activism and more.
When I sat down with him in London recently, I was joined in conversation by my Democracy Now! colleague Denis Moynihan.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, the War and Peace Report. We are on the road in London, just along the Thames, not far from Parliament, not far from MI5 and MI6, the international and domestic spy agencies here, so it is most relevant to bring you John le Carré. This hour, we spend with the foremost spy writer of our time.
Welcome to Democracy Now! Now, it might confuse our audience when I say, "Welcome to Democracy Now!, David Cornwell." Explain where John le Carré came from.
JOHN LE CARRÉ: Well, I’ve told a lot of lies about that in my time, I have to confess. I began writing when I was still in the British Foreign Service, and it was then understood that even if you wrote about butterfly collecting, you used another name. So the fact that I was in a secret department does not play a part. Then, I think I decided that I needed three pieces to a name, that they would arrest the "I" and put an accent on the last part. Then the word carré in French has a bunch of ambiguous meanings. A balle carrée, for example, is a dance where the ladies ask the men to dance. Carré at roulette, if you put a numéro carrée, you put a counter on each corner of a number. And so it goes on. And I think an homme carré is a little bit a dubious guy. That seemed to me to suit me perfectly at that time.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, in the interests of transparency, we’ll just call you David Cornwell, if that’s OK.
JOHN LE CARRÉ: Just David will do fine.
AMY GOODMAN: Now, we were interested because Channel 4 just said "the last interview" with John le Carré, and yet here we are. Why did you change your mind?
JOHN LE CARRÉ: I didn’t change my mind. The full text with Channel 4 was that that was my last interview in the UK. And this is the last book about which I intend to give interviews. That isn’t because I’m in any sense retiring. I’ve found that, actually, I’ve said everything I really want to say, outside my books. I would just like—I’m in wonderful shape. I’m entering my eightieth year. I just want to devote myself entirely to writing and not to this particular art form of conversation.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, we’re very thankful to be with you today. I want to bring Denis Moynihan into this conversation, my colleague, who invariably has a spy novel in his hand, and it is usually a novel by John le Carré. If he hasn’t read it once, he’s read it three times, and then he’s on to the fourth.
DENIS MOYNIHAN: David, the latest book, your twenty-second novel, Our Kind of Traitor, is about—well, I guess, to frame it for our audience, who may not be familiar with your half-century of writing, about half of that time you wrote during the Cold War, and since then you’ve been focusing less on that story and more on the multinational corporate malfeasance and the confluence of kind of corporate interests and government skullduggery. This story, you want to lay it out kind of in broad strokes, the money laundering, the importance of drug money and laundered money in propping up—
JOHN LE CARRÉ: This is really a—it’s a story, and it’s supposed to entertain, and if it doesn’t entertain, there’s no point in the message. The message has—message has got to be carried on the back of the beetle; otherwise, there is none.
So what we have is a young couple. They’re thinking of getting married. They go off and take a holiday in Antigua. They both love tennis. And they’re middle class. One’s a lawyer. The other is a tutor at Oxford. And they’re playing tennis. Somebody watches them. And all of a sudden, the fellow, Perry, is invited to play tennis with a Russian guy. And from then on—there is purpose behind the invitation. From then on, they are drawn into a world they didn’t know existed. They’re both intelligent, decent, moral people, and they’re faced with the anarchy, in fact, the kind of exported anarchy of post-Cold War Russia. So the Wild East has come to visit them in Antigua. And from then on, they are drawn into an intrigue.
Dima, my Russian character—I don’t spoil the story by telling you this—says he wishes to defect. He has a quarrel with his gang boss, who is the boss of bosses in Russia, and he’s going to get even with him. He’s going to betray him. He’s going to pour out all the secrets about how he launders money on a vast scale on behalf of a collection of Russian brotherhoods, or Vory. Russian crime has been integrated into the—first of all, into the Soviet Union, on a grand scale. It was developed—the crime families were developed in the camps of Siberia. And Dima emerges from that world. He was a bareknuckle gangster, spent a bit of time on Brighton Beach, learned the arts of money laundering, learned to wear suits, learned to speak half-decent English, and settled in Switzerland, and from there operated a vast money laundering scheme.
Now, this isn’t fiction. That part of it isn’t fiction. Money laundering is simply everywhere. On the grand scale, it’s endemic to banking. You have to bear in mind that when Lehman Brothers wasn’t going to function anymore and the big banks weren’t lending to one another, back at that terrible time, $352 billion of illegal money were then tacitly released upon the market, and that was about the only money people were lending to one another. So, money laundering is not some distant fantasy. It’s actually how you handle the profits of extortion, tax evasion, criminal conspiracy and huge quantities of drug money, how you get that into the white sector. And what we are gradually learning from these little exposés that come to light is that there is almost no way of denying people, in the end, the profits of their crime, which is a tragedy. And it’s also a frightful annoyance, because we pay vast sums of money across the way here to agencies that are supposed to stop money laundering. It doesn’t happen.
AMY GOODMAN: I mean, you’ve got a column right there, bringing this right up—
JOHN LE CARRÉ: I have a column, yeah. I wish I had the figures in my head. This is from the International Herald Tribune, and I guess that means it also comes from the New York Times of Monday, September the 13th, not so long ago. Barclays, a British bank, paid $298 million "for conducting transactions with Cuba, Iran, Libya, Myanmar and Sudan in violation of United [States] trade sanctions. Barclays was discovered to have systematically disguised the movement of hundreds of millions of dollars through wire transfers that were stripped of the critical information required by law. [...]
"Last May, when ABN Amro Bank (now largely part of the Royal Bank of Scotland) was caught funneling money for the benefit of Iran, Libya and Sudan, it was fined $500 million, and no one went to jail. Last December, Credit Suisse Group agreed to pay a $536 million fine for doing the same. In recent years, Union Bank of California, American Express Bank International, BankAtlantic and Wachovia have all been caught moving huge sums of drug money, but no one went to jail. The banks just admitted to criminal conduct and paid the government a cut of their profits."
The thing is, it is very undemocratic, because if you or I go to one of these banks along here somewhere with a few thousand dollars in a briefcase, if I’m a Brit and do it, I have to give a really thorough explanation. Bank manager may call in the police. I have to produce my passport. If I want to open an account, I have to produce a utilities bill and all of that. But, if Mr. Orloff comes to a bank here and says, "I am from Russia. I have millions and millions of dollars, please. And here is a letter from a reputable lawyer in Moscow. And here is evidence that I run hotels, casinos, whatnot," bank manager says, "What are you doing for lunch?" And we’re away. So, the bigger the sum, the easier the crime. Now, that is of course something that afflicts us through life. But it’s the case here.
AMY GOODMAN: And the critics—I know you don’t read reviews, but the critics who say, "Oh, come on. This is so exaggerated. The legitimate economy does not rest on the illegitimate one, the illegal one."
JOHN LE CARRÉ: Well, alas, those critics don’t read their own newspapers, and nor perhaps have they noticed that a former head of MI5, our security service, who was translated to the House of Lords, was recently denied the senior post on a security committee on account of her connections with oligarchs in the Ukraine. These oligarchs were supposedly connected with criminal conspiracy.
We also have a charming case, which we look back on with embarrassment, where a leading member of the Rothschild family and our present Chancellor of the Exchequer—that’s finance minister—and the éminence grise of the Labour Party at that time, Lord Mandelson, were all found holidaying together off the coast of Corfu, sitting on the boat of a man called Deripaska, who at that time, I believe, was wanted in the United States for—on money laundering charges. So we have a certain amount of evidence before us which you would think would silence critics who say we’re all in perfect shape.
AMY GOODMAN: Could you read the beginning of Our Kind of Traitor?
JOHN LE CARRÉ: "At seven o’clock of a Caribbean morning, on the island of Antigua, one Peregrine Makepiece, otherwise known as Perry, an all-around amateur athlete of distinction and until recently tutor in English literature at a distinguished Oxford college, played three sets of tennis against a muscular, stiff-backed, bald, brown-eyed Russian man of dignified bearing in his middle fifties called Dima. How this match came about was quickly the subject of intense examination by British agents professionally disposed against the workings of chance. Yet the events leading up to it were on Perry’s side blameless.
"The dawning of his thirtieth birthday three months previously had triggered a life-change in him that had been building up for a year or more without his being aware of it. Seated head in hands at eight o’clock in the morning in his modest Oxford rooms, after a seven-mile run that had done nothing to ease his sense of calamity, he had searched his soul to know just what the first third of his natural life had achieved, apart from providing him with an excuse for not engaging in the world beyond the cities dreaming spires. [...]
"Last term he had delivered a series of lectures on George Orwell under the title ‘A Stifled Britain?’ and his rhetoric had alarmed him. Would Orwell have believed it possible that the same overfed voices which had haunted him in the 1930s, the same crippling incompetence, addiction to foreign wars and assumptions of entitlement, were happily in place in 2009?
"Receiving no response from the blank student faces staring up at him, he had supplied it for himself: no, Orwell would have emphatically not believed it. Or if he had, he would have taken to the streets. He would have smashed some serious glass."
AMY GOODMAN: We’ll be back with our exclusive hour with John le Carré in a minute.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: The theme from the BBC production of John le Carré’s Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, composed and conducted by Geoffrey Burgon. Burgon died September 21st, two days after we conducted our exclusive national broadcast hour with David Cornwell in London. I’m Amy Goodman with Denis Moynihan.
AMY GOODMAN: We are not far from MI5 and MI6 right now, which takes us way back in time. For our audience who may not be so familiar with your history, in fact, you did work for the MI5 and MI6.
JOHN LE CARRÉ: I worked for one and then for the other, yes. And I suppose that that was nearly half a century ago. So, to regard me as an expert on espionage is absurd, but—on modern espionage. But—
AMY GOODMAN: These are the spy agencies of Britain.
JOHN LE CARRÉ: These are the spy agencies of Britain, yes. MI5 is responsible for domestic security, but it has no executive powers, unlike your FBI. SIS, the Secret Intelligence Service, also known as MI6, also has no executive powers and operates abroad on CIA lines, but with a tiny percentage of the budget and a tiny percentage of the personnel. Unlike the CIA, it is not also in competition with twenty-one other intelligence agencies within your own country, or whatever the number is, something like that.
And I suppose that if I could generalize about my work in intelligence in those days, for better or worse, we counted ourselves an elite with a very considerable responsibility: to speak truth to power, like good journalists, that whatever we came upon, however offensive it was to those in power, we told it straight. And what I fear I have seen in the run-up to the Iraq war in this country is the politicization of intelligence to fit the political intentions of our masters. And to my mind, that was a terrible moment in the history, the visible history, of intelligence work in this country, where the intelligence service itself became effectively co-author and signatory to the so-called dodgy dossier, which—on the strength of which Colin Powell was able to present a dire picture of the threat from Iraq, which turned out to be untrue.
DENIS MOYNIHAN: January of 2003, one of the largest antiwar marches in world history happened just behind us here.
JOHN LE CARRÉ: I took part in it, yeah.
DENIS MOYNIHAN: And what are your reflections now?
JOHN LE CARRÉ: Well, I think that my anger still stands. I can’t understand that Blair has an afterlife at all. It seems to me that any politician who takes his country to war under false pretenses has committed the ultimate sin. I think that a war in which we refuse to accept the body count of those that we kill is also a war of which we should be ashamed. We’ve always got to be careful of that. I think that—I wasn’t speaking as a prophet, I was just speaking as an angry citizen, I suppose. I think it’s true that we’ve caused irreparable damage in the Middle East. I think we shall pay for it for a long time.
One of the problems, surely, is that victims never forget, and the winners do. And they forget very quickly. If people knew basically, for example, what we had done in Iran when we ousted Mosaddeq through the CIA and the Secret Service here across the way and installed the Shah and trained his ghastly secret police force in all the black arts, the SAVAC, if people understood the extent to which we had humiliated Iran, then they would understand the later developments in Iran and Iran’s posture now. If people would look at the map and see the extent to which Iran is encircled by nuclear powers, they wouldn’t take it perhaps quite so seriously that Iran is seeking to arm itself with—if it is—with nuclear weapons.
I remain terrified of the capacity of the media, the capacity of spin doctors, here and abroad, particularly the United States media, to perpetuate false lies, perpetuate lies. Mussolini, I think, defined fascism as the moment when you couldn’t put a cigarette paper between political and corporate power. He assumed, when he offered that definition, that media power was already his. But I worry terribly that the absence of serious critical argument is going to produce a new kind of fanaticism, the new simplicities that are as dangerous as the ones which caused us to march against Iraq and as misunderstood.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk, David Cornwell, aka John le Carré, about what’s happening with Tony Blair with his new book out, with event after event being canceled, eggs being thrown at him, the anger on the streets?
JOHN LE CARRÉ: Well, I don’t know what the level of protest was in the United States by the time you went to war in Iraq, but here I think an aggregate of about three million people marched in Britain. The first march in which I took part must have numbered something like a million. And so, the—and I remember we stopped, this huge crowd, which was being really very crudely manhandled by the police at the edges. We stopped. We were all wedged together and looking into Downing Street, where the Prime Minister’s residency is. And nobody seemed to speak, but a kind of feral roar of popular will rose. And I tried to imagine what is must have been like for Blair sitting inside that building and hearing that sound. It was like a huge cry that goes up at a football game or something like that, where you actually—it is no longer verbalized. It’s just this animal seething noise. And I think it will always be remembered of him that he took us to war, as most people perceive, on the strength of lies.
Now you have to bear in mind also that we are creating what American media are referring to as a deep state in this country. That is, I think I read, indeed, in the Washington Post, that 890,000-odd Americans who are not in government service are cleared for top secret and above. I don’t know to what extent that situation is replicated here, but more and more I have the feeling that the power of the counterterror market is expanding and creating a wider—an ever-widening circle of those who are initiated, indoctrinated, part of the security structure, whether directly or indirectly, and those who are not. So then it makes it possible, as at the time, for example, of the parliamentary vote on whether we should go to war in Iraq, it makes it possible for a senior MP to take a neophyte aside and say, "If you’d seen the papers that I’ve seen, you would know which lobby to go into when the vote comes up." And this suggestion that there are those in the know and those not in the know, and that those not in the know are second-class citizens, is extremely dangerous to society. And I think we have to address it all the time.
We have no idea. We don’t have a spokesman for these intelligence services, either one of them, either one of the three main intelligence services. We have inspired leaks. We have people who seem to speak with authority. But when somebody tells us suddenly that we’ve gone on to red alert, and there are tanks outside London Airport, or whatever it is, we don’t know by what process this definition reaches us. It’s very easy inside an intelligence service to develop a capsule mentality. You live inside the bubble. The one thing you begin to lose is common sense, a sense of balance. And particularly when it’s men, all together, men in a room. I always think that was the awful secret of the Bay of Pigs catastrophe. It was actually the guys telling each other who they were, and they were frightfully clever men, and they’d done amazing things, some of them horrible things, in Vietnam, and they were together, and they were conspiring, and there was nobody there to say, "Boys, just take it down a bit. Just step back. Is this sensible? Do we really believe the Cubans are going to rush down and embrace our troops when they land on the beach?"
AMY GOODMAN: It’s seven years after the invasion of Iraq. You’ve moved from Blair in this country, and in the United States it’s gone from Bush to Obama, who then expanded the war in Afghanistan. What is your assessment of the United States?
JOHN LE CARRÉ: I suffer from the same frustration that every decent American suffers from. That is, that you begin to wonder whether decent liberal instincts, decent humanitarian instincts, can actually penetrate the right-wing voice, get through the steering of American opinion by the mass media. I don’t know what the percentage now is, but I believe it’s still something like 65 or 70 percent of Americans believe that Saddam was involved in the Twin Towers. Am I right in that? Something like that. Well, we haven’t gone as far down that road yet, but we do have pretty horrendous manipulation of the media by our various press barons, and we have enormous intrusions into our domestic affairs by the Rupert Murdoch empire. I find that very scary—you know, former Australian, now an American, dictating to Brits what they should be thinking. I find that very, very, very unsettling, and I oppose it wherever I can. Therefore, as I say, I share the frustration, I think, of very many Americans, that when something is clear common sense, when there’s a great humanitarian need, somehow or another, it’s the conservative voice, the orthodox voice, the chauvinistic or the patriotic voice, that outshouts other people’s decent thinking processes. I thinks it’s crudely put, but it’s a very crude situation, that it’s—the feeling, I think, that many of us have of Obama is that the good things he would really like to do are being frustrated, and now his own Democratic Party is not helping or supporting him and that the corporate and other lobbies are tying his hands. I think that’s the most charitable perception that one can make.
AMY GOODMAN: David, would you go to one of Tony Blair’s events?
JOHN LE CARRÉ: No, I wouldn’t, nor would I buy the book. At the last election in which he stood, I was invited by The Guardian newspaper to interview him. And after much thought, I declined, because I did not see how I could lay a glove on him. And I’ve asked some pretty heavy-hitting journalists what questions they would have asked, in retrospect, that might have unseated him a little, that might have thrown him. And they said, almost with one voice, there’s nothing you can get passed him, there’s no way of doing it.
I think I would have asked him one question, perhaps, and I’d have asked it repeatedly. I’d have asked him about his faith, because we were told, when journalists asked about Blair’s faith, the reply was, "We don’t do God here." Well, of course, he does do God, and he reports that his actions have been put before God and confirmed, as if somehow God has signed a chit for him. I think that the question of somebody’s religious faith is absolutely central to what we think of them, if we are members of the electorate. We have to know. If it is, for example, somebody’s conviction, widely held among Christians in the United States, that the second coming of Christ is not possible 'til the Greater Israel is established, we need to know that. That's an important political perception. In Blair’s case, I would have asked him that question, and I’d have pressed him on it. I’d have asked him whether God had ever restrained him. I find it very strange that we elect a politician who then claims to serve a higher deity who guides him: "I did what I believe is right." Well, will you tell us, please, how that relates to the Christian ethic? Do you believe in war first and negotiation afterwards? Exactly how does this work?
And the second question I would ask him is the really painful one, which I could not have asked if I hadn’t gone on my own journey. Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war? I think that if anything has happened to Europe since 1945 that defines it, it is collectively Europeans do not believe in war anymore, until it comes as an absolute last resort, and then they’re going to do it rather badly. The United States, I think, still sees war as a necessary part of its existence. It’s impossible to maintain the military on that scale, a Pentagon on that scale, without turning it over. You’ve got to have officers who are experienced in command and control. You’ve got to have troops who have been bloodied. So, we were, in that sense, at odds. I was, as a European. I was at odds with the whole notion of a preemptive strike. And I think many Europeans have that in common, of course with very many Americans, too, feel the same. So I would have tried to challenge him in that area.
And as I think I said earlier in the interview, for me, there are very few absolutes about human behavior. But I think a leader who does take his country to war under false pretenses is simply not an acceptable person. I don’t think that we should be weighing the rights and wrongs of that. It seems to me to be quite simply wrong.
AMY GOODMAN: John le Carré, the British spy novelist. We’ll continue our exclusive national broadcast hour with him in a minute.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: The theme music from The Deadly Affair, composed by Quincy Jones. The film was an adaptation of John le Carré’s first novel, Call for the Dead. Now John le Carré has written his twenty-second. It’s called Our Kind of Traitor.
This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, the War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Denis Moynihan, as we go back to our national broadcast exclusive hour in London with John le Carré.
AMY GOODMAN: Can we talk about corporations, because it’s an issue you have taken on in your later books in a huge way? And interestingly, particularly corporate power in Africa—
JOHN LE CARRÉ: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN:—whether we’re talking The Constant Gardener, which took place in Kenya, or we’re talking The Mission Song, which took place in Congo, in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
JOHN LE CARRÉ: Absolutely, yeah, yeah. Well, it’s where I have seen globalization at work on the ground. It’s a pretty ugly sight. It’s a boardroom fantasy. What it actually means is the exploitation of very cheap labor, very often the ecological disaster that comes with it, the creation of mega-cities, the depletion of agrarian cultures and tribal cultures. It’s about—the effect of globalization, again, where I have seen it, has been negative, as far as the local population is concerned. It’s enriched the very few in the country where it takes place. And it has totally dismayed the inhabitants otherwise. So, ask me what corporate power means to me, it means the ability of the individual to sacrifice his own instincts, his own decent instincts, in the name of the corporation, that people will do things to—on behalf of the corporation, to a group of people, which they would never do to their next-door neighbor, so that all the decent humanity seems to be set aside the moment they walk through the corporate doors.
In The Constant Gardener, in particular, it was quite extraordinary to go to Basel, to get among the young pharmaceutical executives in a private way, promise them that I would never tell—divulge their names, and listen to them pouring out their rage against the work they were doing, at the people who were making them do it. But they were still taking the penny, and they were still doing what they were doing. They were still contributing to the invention of diseases. They were fiddling with compounds, turn them into new patents, when they actually had no greater effect than the previous patent. They were joining the lie that every new compound put on the market cost six or eight hundred million dollars, which is pretty good nonsense when you think that many of the main health life-saving drugs that go on the market have been developed, for instance, in your own federal laboratories and then sold by some strange method to the pharmaceutical company, so they didn’t do the hard work themselves very often.
So, when we think, supposedly with pride, that many corporations have the budgets, which are larger—have budgets which are larger than the many small nations, I find that most alarming. And, of course, in our country, we’re up against the fact that huge corporations are effective here, control the super markets, whatever they do, and they pay virtually no tax. We’re back to how they launder their money, or, if it’s a more polite way of saying it, how they apply sophisticated taxation arrangements so that they don’t pay tax.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you give us a thumbnail sketch of The Constant Gardener?
JOHN LE CARRÉ: It’s a young fellow in the Foreign Office, born into the clover, Eton-educated, a sense of political responsibility, a little bit of a frozen child, stiff parents, no love in his early life, falls in love with a beautiful, idealistic young woman, and she marries him. It’s almost she who does it. And they go off to Kenya, and she engages in charitable work and comes upon evidence that a big pharmaceutical company is using a bunch of people in a village in Africa, in Kenya, as human guinea pigs. They sign the consent forms. They don’t know what they’re signing. They’re bullied into it by the local representatives of the pharmaceutical company. Everything is outsourced. Everything is given away to other people, so that the company itself is never directly responsible. And she becomes very involved in this. She takes a stand, and she is murdered. He, who adores her, comes to the conclusion that he must take up her message and take up her fight, and carries it on. And in the end, romantically—I’m nothing, if not a romantic, in some respects—in the end he dies, as part of the mission, and you may say that he joins her, makes a similar sacrifice. And so, they, both of them, did the decent thing against the most anonymous and horrific kind of threat, which is one of sort of untouchable corporate power.
The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything. And, to me—I’m not suggesting we make some sudden lurch into socialism, that isn’t the case at all. I think it’s more to do with the exercise of individual conscience.
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s play a clip of Constant Gardener.
UNIDENTIFIED: Big pharmaceuticals, they’re right up there with the arms dealers.
JUSTIN QUAYLE: [played by Ralph Fiennes] Payoffs, cover-ups, unmarked graves.
UNIDENTIFIED: Are you crazy?
UNIDENTIFIED: These people, they kill anybody.
UNIDENTIFIED: Poor man seems to have convinced himself there was a conspiracy in which we are all complicit.
UNIDENTIFIED: There’s a contract out on you. You’ll never know who ordered the hit. That’s the way it works. It’s a corporate matter.
AMY GOODMAN: That was a clip of Constant Gardener. We mentioned Congo and The Mission Song earlier, and you just mentioned it again, but I do want to ask if you’d simply describe the nut of that story, because the story of Congo and Eastern Congo is one that is rarely told, yet millions of people have died.
JOHN LE CARRÉ: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: And the devastation of the environment has been just horrifying. You did choose to go there and write a novel about it.
JOHN LE CARRÉ: I did choose to go there, and I was escorted by a wonderful American man, Jason Stearns, who is a dedicated student of Africa and a lover of Africa, and also Michela Wrong, who had written nonfiction books about Africa. And we agreed we would make a three, and we would go—we went, first of all, to Rwanda, and from Rwanda we went by jeep then into Eastern Congo, and we stayed in Bukavu. I think we were in Bukavu for about, I don’t know, eight or nine days, and I think there were two or three riots there while we were there.
And the tragedy of Congo is almost—it is appalling. It isn’t really—it isn’t the Congo’s fault even. Congo has become the battleground for other people’s wars, repeatedly. Congo is cursed with amazing mineral resources—diamonds, coltan, now, I believe, up in the northeast of Congo, oil even. God help them, because without any civil society to function, they have been exploited, not simply in terms of boy soldiers, awful gang wars that sweep through the jungle, mass rape as a military weapon, they’ve been subjected to every hell on earth, these poor people.
And meanwhile, don’t think that Africans are disposed to corruption where we are not, so to speak. Actually, most of the corruption that has taken place in Congo on a vast scale is Western-driven. So there are something like eighty or ninety “airlines”—in quotes—registered in Congo, and these simply belong to tiny exploitative companies that harness boy soldiers and kids to dig out the diamonds or the coltan, whatever it may be, and ship it out of Congo without paying duty or anything of that sort. Without paying royalties to anyone is theft. And Congo is being exploited by everybody on account of these reasons, in addition to providing the battleground for other people’s wars.
AMY GOODMAN: As we wrap up, I wanted to ask you about the writing process and why writing is so important to you.
JOHN LE CARRÉ: Well, it’s—I think the first process, for me, of writing is making—making order out of chaos, out of such a convergence of experiences and so many insoluble things that I’ve seen in my life, to be able to draw a line, to tell a fable which illustrates them, which entertains, and which delivers, even if it’s a sad one, some kind of resolution, is for me, if you will, a catharsis, a therapy. I think also, in the making of character, I feel completely happy. It always seems to me that the excitement of people is the possibilities of their character—who are you? We don’t know each other, but I could imagine you could be this person, you could be that person. And in my book, you’re that person. I don’t plot. I don’t make what you’re supposed to do in writing schools, the flow charts on how I will proceed. I try to get—as in this case, I get two innocent people into a Hitchcockian model and make them fight their way out. But from scene to scene, they have to lead me. And that’s—it’s like asking somebody whether they’re musical or why they’re musical. To me, that is the whole of life. I can’t put it differently.
I just want to—I want to leave the public stage, insofar as I’ve ever been on it, and I would now—I’m fit and resolved, and I’ve got a wonderful family, and I just want to spend the rest of my time doing what I do best, which is writing. I love being an entertainer. I love being a storyteller. I don’t think there is a story unless it provokes a little, unless it engages. I don’t think there’s such a thing as entertaining escapism. Not for me. I think there is entertaining involvement, and that’s what I try to do.
DENIS MOYNIHAN: And do you write with a pen?
JOHN LE CARRÉ: I do write with a pen. I’m not advertising this one, because the cap flies off all the time, and actually I’m reduced to pasting them together. I write only with a pen. I’ve learned to operate a computer to communicate with my children, because they won’t communicate with me in any other medium, but otherwise I write entirely with a pen. And I have an immensely attentive, gifted, tactful wife, who loves to type the stuff out, gives it back to me, and watches bemused as I rip it up again and give it back to her. And that goes on. That’s our relationship.
DENIS MOYNIHAN: I think we approached you first for an interview, perhaps about eight or nine months ago, when you were in the midst of writing Our Kind of Traitor.
JOHN LE CARRÉ: Yes.
DENIS MOYNIHAN: And your agent said he absolutely doesn’t communicate with people like us while you’re writing.
JOHN LE CARRÉ: Well, I’m sure it was a mistake.
DENIS MOYNIHAN: So the cloistering yourself on the cliffs of Cornwall, or wherever you happen to be writing, is that an important part of your process?
JOHN LE CARRÉ: Yes. I mean, for some books, I’ve traveled a lot, and I was very much driven by Graham Greene’s dictum that if you’re reporting on human misery—Amy, you know this far better than I. If you’re reporting on human misery, you do well to share it. And that was a principle that came to me late. I started writing books that were set abroad, like The Honourable Schoolboy and so on. I really thought that although the thought horrified me and I have no natural courage whatever, I should see war, so I went off to Cambodia, and I went off and actually I became the protected child of the war correspondents, and I was very fortunate about that. So, by travel, by talking, by listening, above all, in the places where I go to—or as it was, East Congo, or wherever the books take me—then I fill up my rucksack, my backpack. And then I like to take everything, all my scraps of paper and my memories, down to Cornwall and sort them out there. So, it’s engagement, escape, engagement, escape. I think, again, it’s very similar to a journalist’s life, except nobody checks my story out. I don’t have to tell—I don’t have to tell the small truth. I just have to—I have to be looking for the big truth.
AMY GOODMAN: John Le Carré, the pen name for David Cornwell, from Cornwall. That does it for our broadcast. The great spy novelist has just published his twenty-second book. It’s called Our Kind of Traitor. It’s out this week. If you’d like a copy of this national broadcast hour exclusive, you can get a DVD at our website at democracynow.org. We did that interview in London. Special thanks to my colleague Denis Moynihan.

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